A Ghost Ship Drifting Through International Waters
sobify.com
sobify.com
See e.g. http://www.wsj.com/articles/ship-tracking-startup-windward-v... and https://pando.com/2015/04/27/the-last-great-analog-frontier-...
Take an enormous number of photos of the region at the right resolution, and have software eliminate the boring (empty) photos and flag the interesting ones (contain something of the right size) for human review. Heck, I bet it could even exclude known shipping lanes to minimize false positives.
You could, conceivably, completely miss the object in your imaging passes; or the satellite you have tasked for a particular ground track has an error in it's imaging sensor or downlink equipment, meaning you're missing a huge chunk of data for a while. You might also have to move the satellites around occasionally making imaging useless during these periods as well.
Also.. there's night and weather. You can't always freely image the surface just because you have a camera pointed in that direction.
These are just a small number of reasons that whole-earth real-time imaging is seriously difficult.
I suspect the parent is both confusing a million with a trillion and also miles with kilometres.
In any case.. the reason I chose that is because that's probably close to a reasonable maximum single pixel resolution for tracking imagery. I wanted the scope of the problem to be obvious by choice of units; unfortunately, I screwed that part up. :(
(And, of course, it didn't occur to me that 1e6 million square metres is a square kilometre...)
I understand it's a big job, but that's why big governments have billion dollar budgets and toys. Also remember we have no need to take photos of the entire surface, only the Atlantic (and even then, only the North Atlantic right now)
>You could, conceivably, completely miss the object in your imaging passes
I feel quite confident when images are taken their exact co-ordinates are known, so it can be quickly determined if you've "missed" a patch or if you have them all.
>* or the satellite you have tasked for a particular ground track has an error in it's imaging sensor or downlink equipment*
I feel quite certain they've tested these things extensively, and they're not going find some previously unknown bug while looking for a ship in the ocean. They work properly.
> * You might also have to move the satellites around occasionally making imaging useless during these periods as well.*
I thought most satellites were in orbits that make it possible to image almost the entire surface without moving them.
> Also.. there's night and weather
I didn't say it was going to be easy.
> whole-earth real-time imaging is seriously difficult
I'm not for one second proposing whole-earth real-time imaging.
Yes.. but spending a billion dollars to save a few million is kind of silly, isn't it?
> feel quite confident when images are taken their exact co-ordinates are known, so it can be quickly determined if you've "missed" a patch or if you have them all.
Knowing you're missing data is one thing, but if you're _looking_ for a _moving_ object it can really set you back. You also then have to wait for that satellite, or another one on the same ground track to make the next pass. Most earth imaging satellites have a 90 minute orbital period. Even then, the earth is spinning, so you can't get back to the _exact_ spot very easily (if at all). Still confident this is easy?
> I feel quite certain they've tested these things extensively, and they're not going find some previously unknown bug while looking for a ship in the ocean. They work properly.
You can't image from geosynchronous orbit. I mean, you can, but it's pointless. You need a polar orbit. These orbits aren't stable. You need to adjust them (seriously, sign up for the GPS update list and see how often they have to be adjusted and moved).
Also, "they work properly." Clearly you're not an engineer. Things work properly until they don't. Which could be because of component failure, debris strike or you know, plain ole solar flares. These objects are in _space_. It sort of ups the bar.
> thought most satellites were in orbits that make it possible to image almost the entire surface without moving them.
As I said before, these orbits aren't perfectly stable. You need to boost and adjust and make movements. You may also want to put a new satellite in a slot where a previous satellite (with lessor technology) was. This all requires an insane amount of coordination and effort. Or, an insanely huge cluster.
> I didn't say it was going to be easy.
You made it sound as if it was a foregone conclusion. My effort was to point out that it is in no way that simple. It's going to be hard, it's going to cost a lot, you're going to have to throw people and money and equipment at it _constantly_. Is this justifiable for looking for missing objects? Probably not.
> I'm not for one second proposing whole-earth real-time imaging.
Then good luck finding those _moving_ objects. Also, I'd like to know what orbit takes a satellite only over the Atlantic Ocean. Yes, there are orbits that can "park" over an area, but those orbits are useless for the type of imaging you're suggesting, so you have to deal with the whole-earth problem anyways.
Unfortunately they generally cost hundreds of millions of dollars and there's only a handful of them in operation.
If a western government actually wanted to look for this ship (while it was still floating, anyway), they'd almost certainly find it. There's whole divisions of the air force and navy trained to do exactly that. The cost of the search would be pretty much unjustifiable though.
Entropy has overcome this vessel. Cheaper to buy one than to find and fix/recycle it.
Or you could buy a used cruise ship. Lots of smaller ones are available, because everybody seems to want the mega-huge ones now.[1] There are some nice mega-yacht possibilities available for $1m - $3m.
Of course, now you have to find a place to park it and pay about 20 people to run it.
Battleship São Paulo was a ship that... sort of fought on WW1 (it started the war as active, but the British complained it had poor fire control, the ship was sent to US for refit, but the refitting ended after the war ended). And fought on WW2 (during WW2 the ship had problems with mobility, having a top speed of only 10km/h, that was nowhere close of the original design speed, so it was decided to use it as stationary defensive platform in Brazil's northeast, where a couple of U boats were attacking transport ships).
In 1951 it was sold to a british scrap company, the tug line broke mid-transport and the ship was lost very hard (as in: people have no idea where to look for it, they don't even know the initial direction that the ship went after the tow line broke).
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mystery-of-th...
http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/shortcuts/2014/jan/24...
From the new article it looks like it finally sunk now.
If there was some reason that this ship was an actual threat to countries like the US or Russia who have the large high resolution satellite networks in place it probably would have been found pretty quickly. There just wasn't a reason for the effort to be expended to look for it, the ship was old and being scrapped and wasn't full of anything particularly dangerous to worry any of the countries that could find it.
Which makes me wonder about MH370.
1. Did a large country find it, but not want to divulge that because it would give away their "find stuff" capability.
2. Did the large countries try, but fail to find it, and obviously not divulge that because it would give away their inability to "find stuff" quickly
3. Did the large countries not even bother looking, because they have more important things to look at.
Obviously, you'd need quite some budget to pay an analytics team to find a plane out in the ocean. You can't just conjure the money out of thin air.
And if you go to your superiors and ask them for the money and have to admit it will disclose a lot of your capabilities to foreign powers, you'll likely simply get a resounding "NO". After all, it was never the question of rescuing living people with MH370.
Did you notice how the US kept sat images and phone recordings extremely close to their chest in the case of MH17? I am pretty sure they have a lot more intelligence on that thing than they are willing to admit - they not having constant surveillance over a battle field in Europe would be extremely negligent.
So 2 & 3? They probably used some satellite imagery to look for large chunks but the effort to do the small survey was beyond what they were willing to expend without a better idea of where to search.
What a depressing phrase.
The problems with MH370 were twofold. One - initially nobody actually knew where it was. The search area was HUGE, and for the first few days there was much less information about the aircraft location. The eventual search area was selected based on quite detailed analysis of the satellite pings the aircraft sent. This took time. It took 9 days for the search to even start in the southern Indian Ocean. Even once they'd figured out roughly where it had gone down, the search area was still astronomically big. Two - aircraft wreckage isn't nearly as reflective to radar as a ship. An aluminium panel floating flat in the ocean will have a very similar reflection profile to the surrounding water.
I think you need a fourth option. Large countries definitely have a technical advantage, but the military still has to obey the laws of physics. Large budgets and no legal restrictions probably put military technology a generation or two ahead of comparable civilian technology - it's better, but it's not magic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_(The_X-Files)
It was one of those lovely standalone episodes built on a What if premise, that is never mentioned again.
After a brief perusal of Sobify, I found http://www.sobify.com/vogelsang-where-the-soviets-kept-the-m...
I've been there, but visited mostly different parts of the site, and didn't find where the nuclear missiles were stored. It occupies several square kilometres.
The closest railway station is at the nearby village, also called Vogelsang. I had to press a bell to stop the train to get off, and put my hand out to stop it to get back on.
[1]http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/cruise-ship-wit...