Ask HN: How can I move to USA? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How can I move to USA?

25 pointsoscardelben42 comments

I want to move to USA in the next years and I would like to know which steps I should take to do that.

Currently I'm self employed and I'm not looking for a job in the US. I'm from Italy and have no family if that makes any difference.

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A better choice would be Canada. For an educated professional with command of English or (even better if it's "and") French, it's very easy to become a permanent resident in Canada. 3 years later you'd be eligible for citizenship and ability to work and live in the United States (on a visa, but with very few restrictions).

Otherwise, not having family in the States, you don't have many options, although not needing to work makes a few things easier.

The easiest one is to enroll in an academic program. Another is to marry a US citizen. I believe Italians are still eligible for green card lottery, but you may want to double-check that. If you have 500K-1M lying around, you may invest them into a company and get a green card that way. Unless you're an Arab or a Jehova witness, you probably won't qualify for refugee status. Maybe being gay in Italy can help, but I don't have much info on that. Finally, you can get a job on an H1-B and apply for employment-based green card with your employer's cooperation.

If you're going for reasons of finding employment or becoming an entrepreneur definitely do not go to Canada.

Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.

More red tape than you need to tie up an aircraft carrier.

Canada's held a lot of appeal to me since I see a lot of things in common with the UK (home country) only better. Can you tell me more about why it's so bad for finding employment or starting a business?

Because the Canadian government (especially immigration) tends to string you along.

If you're going to do this my advice would be to not invest a single penny into the Canadian economy until you've got your landed immigrant status.

The only thing that will keep them moving is money that is still in the pipeline, once you've done your investment ($750,000 in my case) there is no more hurry since there is no more gain.

And shop around because the delays vary hugely from one center to another.

Please take this serious, I've been through 5 years of immigration nonsense and finally gave up, sold my assets (or gave them away) and moved back to Europe.

Canada is a beautiful country, most Canadians are ok people but the government simply sucks.

I'm in no position to invest anything but my good self at the moment but I shall remember this when/if I'm ever in the position to move. I'm a little surprised by the lack of foresight by the officials there in your case. Was that in a particular region (Ontario, Quebec or whatever)? After visiting both a few times, the US and Canada have seemed like great places to move to. Saying that, I've just been to Sweden and Denmark and thought the same about those too. I do question myself and wonder if I'm suffering from 'grass is greener' syndrome or the UK really is considerably less appealing than all these places.

Ontario.

Toronto for 2 years, Northern Ontario (Sault Ste. Marie region) for 3 years.

Better invest in some warm winter clothing ;)

I don't have those money and I don't have a degree. However my mom was born in Canada although she doesn't have the citizenship, maybe that could help.

A bachelor's degree will make things a bit easier, and a PhD a lot easier.

But remember, you can move anywhere you want in the EU like, tomorrow, with no fuss whatsoever. Is the grass really greener on the other side of the Atlantic?

Assuming he speaks itialian and english the EU comprises the UK and Ireland for him. About the only two places in the world that are greater desaster zones than the US at the moment (well, apart from Spain and Greece maybe).

With only a little of the local language you can get by pretty well in Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt... Any city with a significant commercial/financial community. It is actually even more difficult to learn Dutch in Amsterdam because as soon as you open your mouth, they reply in English. Outside of the major cities yes you might find it difficult, but not insurmountably so.

There are Italian-speakers in Switzerland too.

Yes the Netherlands is probably an option. But settling in Paris without being a native french speaker is notoriously difficult. That's what people tell me anyway, I never tried.

Speaking from my own experience, and that of several friends, you need very little French to show up in Paris and just get on with it. Numbers, how to read street signs, what the different kinds of shops are, that sort of thing. The only thing you need good French for is if you need to deal with the local bureaucracy (unless you are or are with a pregnant woman, that is the root password to the French public sector). If you have lived in London or New York, you could get a long way in day-to-day life in Paris on intuition alone.

It's a lot easier obv. if you already have a job there (I did, at a French company with a significant UK presence), but that's true of anywhere. It would be a lot harder to show up in a small town without good French, and some places will be practically impossible unless you are French, but that's a political thing.

As an Italian, he can very easily learn French, so Belgium, France and Switzerland (both the italian and french part) are also open to him.

Switzerland is not part of the EU and french isn't that easy to learn for italian speakers I believe.

They are not part of the EU but there are a number of agreements between the EU and Switzerland and in particular EU citizens don't need a visa to stay there for more than 3 months.

And French and Italian (and Spanish and Portuguese for that matter) are really similar languages, most of my Italian friends could speak French quite well after only 3 months (meaning they were able to deal with everyday life and read good size books with no difficulty).

To work in an IT capacity in europe you need a very good grasp of the local language unless it's explicitly an english speaking role. Native english speakers are treated very differently than everyone else, particularly in large international organisations.

I've been moving around in Europe a lot and I've been reading the job boards for years. You're either english speaking or you know the native language extremely well. Otherwise your odds of landing an IT job outside of the UK are next to zero.

Has any of your itialian friends actually worked in France in an IT or other qualified role?

Well they were computer science students who went to my university for 6 months during their master degree...

Now as to the working environment in Europe, well since I moved to Japan straight after graduating, I haven't really worked in Europe (save for an internship in Germany where the work went well enough although my german is far from perfect). So, I can't say exactly how it is...

As for racism, it exists, but actually my friends from Martinique (who are french citizens) had a much harder time with it because they are black than friends from Asia or Europe.

French, Italian and Spanish are all "Romance" languages, derived from the Latin spoken in the Roman Empire. They are easy to learn for anyone who already speaks one of them.

These languages share many word stems but the grammar is different and the pronunciation too, particularly in the case of french. So opportunity driven migration within Europe is not easy.

Sure, learning french is easier for an italian speaker than learning swedish. But learning swedish should be super simple for anyone speaking english and german. It's not that easy.

But migration within Europe is not only hampered by language. Many countries just don't like non-english speaking foreigners, no matter how well educated they may be.

If she was born in Canada then I'm pretty sure she is technically a citizen and you could go through a bureaucratic process to document it.

Unless you're an Arab

What? The USA considers Arabs in Italy to be in need of rescue?

Hi, I'm in a similar situation. I live in Europe and plan to move to the bay area after earning my bachelor degree here in Brussels.

I know some of the implications of moving to America, but I am wondering if the following situation could make things easier for me.

I have co-founded a non-profit organization (incorporated in NY) with my partner (who's living on a student visa himself at the moment). We also got our own web development & consultancy company (though not officially registered as a company yet), and I would like to work independently with my partner when I move to the bay area.

Do you think the companies we have founded could provide us with a work visa?

If either organization employs 10 or more Americans, you could get a Green Card very easily with an EB-5 visa.

You have 3 options:

1) As an Italian citizen you can go to the US and stay there for up to 3 months at a time using the tourist visa waiver program. You are not allowed to work, but you are allowed to interview for a potential job.

2) If you get a job, it is now easy for a company to sponsor you for an H-1B working visa. It will last for 2 years, after which it can be renewed.

3) Other options, such as a Green Card, the EB-1 (Alien of Extraordinary Ability), and an Investor Visa (if you have more than $1 million to invest) exist, but don't apply to most people.

I'd urge you to consider such a move carefully. It is a commonly exhibited bias to think everything will be better if you move to a new country, but there is hardly a correlation. For what you will gain by moving you will lose a lot of what you have in Italy.

also, you can extend (1) to 6 months with a tourist visa.

and i can confirm the last paragraph. it varies from person to person, obviously, but i have lived in a "foreign" country for around 10 years now, and it's still hard at times.

It looks like http://travel.state.gov/visa/visa_1750.html is step 1.

Step 2 might be to visit the nearest US embassy or office.

Step 3 is probably determined by steps 1 and 2.

Step N might involve one or two visits to a specialist lawyer in your country or the US, for advice.

1) Come over on a student visa. Major restrictions, you have to go to school full-time and you can't work anywhere. But in the meantime you can apply for jobs at places that might sponsor an H1-B visa and/or greencard.

2) Apply for a job at places that might sponsor an H1-B visa and/or greencard.

3) Marry a U.S. Citizen.

Sergey Brin gave a few maybe-helpful links:

http://too.blogspot.com/2009/10/journey-of-lifetime.html

Mind if I ask why? US is in a serious decline and the future is looking pretty bleak both politically and economically.

The economic troubles in the U.S. are shared by most developed countries. If you look at national debt or large numbers involving the Treasury or Fed it looks like we stand alone. However, any country that holds or trades with USD is in it with us. Whatever happens to the USD will not cause irreparable harm to the U.S., its people, its natural resources.

If you need context, go find a 100 year old American that is blessed with a clear mind. They can tell you of much tougher times. My grandmother is 99 and can recall with absolute clarity the U.S. of the 1920s, 30s, 40s. I write this post from my iMac, in a large warm house drinking a cup of good coffee.

It may sound bizarre but I want to move there because it's way more fun than living here and when I've visited before I've always found great people. Also I have some friends who live there and I would like to visit them more often.

On a related note, here the situation is not better in terms of economy.

EDIT: Also I can't see but more opportunities in the programming industry in the USA than any other country.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis has all the info you need. Specifically the Green Card section.

Thanks!

Oh come on, is it really THAT bad? :)

As much as I like pontificate on the doom and gloom of our current economy, there are PLENTY of opportunities left in the US for an educated worker.

No, I don't think it's _that_ bad. Maybe a good comparison is with the UK circa 1920. The empire is in steep decline, other powers are on the rise. But during that time the UK was still one of the better places in the world, just not the center of it any longer.

True, there are many opportunities but in my experience the trend is pointing to fewer opportunities, more competition and less money to be made even by the most talented. Here's an interesting post by Kent Beck who is finding that it is more difficult to make a living from his craft: http://www.threeriversinstitute.org/blog/?p=231

I second that. I am a business marketer and I have seen my clients increase paying for marketing campaigns during this recession, so some industries benefited from the recession.

It would establish context for your remark if I knew where you suggest someone who was born in the United States should go to avoid decline and a bleak future.

Did you read the post? He's coming from Italy!!!

$750,000 is a lot. I have known people first hand to invest only $125,000 and get a long term business visa to US.

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You have to have around $500k in the bank. Otherwise you have to have a job to go to. Finally, and I suspect this might be a problem for the OP, for most visas you have to have a university degree.

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