Scientists want planes to fly in formation like geese, to save on jet fuel | Hacker News Reader

Scientists want planes to fly in formation like geese, to save on jet fuel

guardian.co.uk

22 pointsvaksel15 comments

Or, to be more accurate, one scientist and his team suggested that planes could save on jet fuel by doing this.

In other news, there was once a math professor who suggested blowing up the moon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Abian

"Scientists" want the darnedest things. It's almost as if they think for themselves, take great joy in impractical or even silly ideas, and are as likely to be crazy as anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csj7vMKy4EI

Color me skeptical. Geese and pelicans fly within a few wingspans of each other and at relatively low speeds. I am not sure I would want to fly in a flock of jumbos a few hundred feet apart at mach .85. Mythbusters did a show on the benefits of drafting semis. The conclusion was that the savings were substantial, but the following vehicle had to be so close that the danger was also substantial, 2 feet IIRC.

Aren't planes at cruising altitude flown mostly on autopilot? Computer controls don't suffer from the sluggish reaction speeds that make following closely risky for humans driving on a highway.

You cant have fighter jet reaction times when people are walking around inside the planes. Also you have clear air turbulence, wind shear and all kinds of nasties up there.

Military aircraft, including long range bombers, routinely fly in formation so it would seem a better first test would be there.

They already fly much close than that, routinely. Heard of this thing called in-flight refuelling? ;)

Several wing spans is the kind of separation you have on parallel approach into SFO.

they are supposedly trialling super-convoys in the UK - where a truck or van equipped with the right electronics controls 5 or 6 trailing cars using driver aids an auto pilot.

I'm told it's a success so far (by someone working on the project) so it might not be utter bunk to transfer it to planes - who already make extensive use of "driver aids" and auto pilots.

Those system still seem to have some obvious safety issues... Yes, the convoy vehicles can all brake in unison, but what about mechanical failures that would slow the vehicle faster than trailing vehicles could safely brake?

While I can't think of a single incident of a jumbo jet experiencing a spontaneous catastrophic failure during a flight mode when drafting would be useful (@ cruising altitude, in clear weather, etc); I'm sure such events have and will occur. Doubling or tripling the possible number of casualties in such an incident seems like something that should be given a whole lot of thought... (fortunately it looks like they're doing just that)

There is something called a rail road that does similar things but requires less tech and is still safer.

worked for me, I got 51 mpg drafting an SUV on a 400 mile trip. In a car that usually gets 24mpg highway.

I wasn't even on their bumper, like 2 car lengths behind.

I'm not an aerospace expert, but it seems to me that higher speeds would allow for larger draft envelopes. Since this would be pivotally necessary to study I'm sure the scientists spearheading this opinion have.

Personal experience suggests that you don't need to be so close to semis and while I love the Mythbusters' attitude to just go ahead and test things they are a far cry from scientific data.

If you believe this could be the future, there seems to be a business in creating the routing/scheduling algorithms for where/when planes should meet up to fly in formation.

They should just have each plane fly behind a flock of geese.

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