Tech companies lobbying for CISA are abandoning their users' privacy
youbetrayedus.org
youbetrayedus.org
Microsoft never states if their (unnamed, unnumbered) trusted 3rd-parties can also share data.
Microsoft does not release the names or the number of third-parties involved. They can be foreign, governmental, outsourced developers.
There is no language covering the release of this data to "non-trusted" parties.
Microsoft does not distinguish between personal and business data. This, additionally, puts businesses that are required, by law, to protect client/patient information (Law, Medicine, Finance) at further risk.
Microsoft does not distinguish between the (illegal) search/seizure and distribution of personal/business data. It does little to distinguish between adults and children. Captured data (including video) of those under 18 in legally questionable situations, redistributed to (unnamed and presumably large number of "trusted" third parties) may and should place Microsoft as distributors violating various child abuse laws.
Military and Politician data captured can (and should) be viewed as acts of espionage/treason by the US Government.
Their data-collecting scheme had immediate and obvious legal ramifications. I couldn't figure out why OUR government wasn't more responsive to this threat. It's becoming increasing clear that there has been lots of back-door collusion between the tech giants and our own government.
This bill is a testament to that.
A week after the Win10 release (still seeing red because of the privacy issues), picked up an older laptop (wanted something super Linux-friendly) with legacy BIOS and haven't been this happy with an OS in over a decade.
My biggest worry now is that Open Source Software with strong privacy rights policy might be pressured by government/politicians, commercial entities and general public apathy to engage in the same kind of illegal data-mining for so-called "national security" reasons.
At the rate we're going, it's inevitable.
Apple and Tim Cook in particular have generally been on the side of user privacy, of sticking with encryption even when it's causing friction with law enforcement, but they have also unlocked phones and computers when compelled by a court order.
It stands to reason that they be forced to disclose personal information, that they may have to hand over cloud-hosted files, email, or messages, or unlock devices.
As far as I know Apple has never tapped into someone's system to retrieve information from the operating system. The equipment in question has always been in the immediate possession of law enforcement individuals.
This is a thorny issue, everyone's idea of "acceptable behaviour" varies considerably.
Plus, if in the future Apple is compelled by law to allow remote access to systems under certain circumstances, things will change considerably.
Do you have any links for this?
However, from my understand newer versions of iOS no longer give Apple the ability to bypass their own security even if they wanted to. However, Android phones are a totally different story...Google just resets the pass code upon court order.
Edit: It looks like the NSA/Law Enforcement wouldn't even need due process since the companies are just giving away the private data. https://www.faxbigbrother.com/#whatiscisa
If government forced me to hand over data on users, I wouldn't want to be held liable for that. So, I'm not sure why people are complaining to companies about it? Do they expect companies to break laws?
People forget that government is always the highest power of the land. You are forced to do what government decides it wants to do.
Take your issues up with government, not me.
(i) No Liability For Non-Participation.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed to subject any entity to liability for choosing not to engage in the voluntary activities authorized in this Act.
Reading through the bill, it seems like this is a well-intentioned attempt to promote data sharing between corporations and security agencies in the event of a widespread cyberattack. There are definite use cases for a law like this. For example, if both Lockheed Martin and Boeing are hit by a cyberattack, under this bill they are allowed to coordinate and mitigate the attack using data from both parties. But the enormous flaw in this bill is that there are only vague restrictions on the type of data allowed to be shared. These restrictions are so vague that an unscrupulous company could send all their customers' private data to the government under the context of this law.
The US needs reform on its cybersecurity defense and this bill is a step towards change. But with the potential for abuse this bill is a huge step backwards. Hopefully there are other ways to improve US cybersecurity defense without compromising civil liberties.
You can find a copy of the bill, including a short summary of each section, at the link below:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/754
Doesn't this just mean companies don't have to hand-off private data to government?
Isn't that the exact opposite thing people are complaining about?
Microsoft already "needs" to win multiple contracts with the government, and Apple is supposed to "win" Apple Pay integration with federal services.
If all the data requests would be legal then they shouldn't need immunity, should they? This is 90% of the way the encryption backdoor the government has been requesting. That's why it's "backing down" on that.
Much like what Microsoft has already been doing years before this [1], the NSA will get Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, Oracle and others' zero-days ~3-12 months before they are patched, as part of the "cyber-threat sharing" program. That's as good as having dozens of backdoors in tech companies' software that billions of people are using.
Michael Hayden, who formerly directed the National Security Agency and the CIA, described the attention paid to important company partners: “If I were the director and had a relationship with a company who was doing things that were not just directed by law but were also valuable to the defense of the Republic, I would go out of my way to thank them and give them a sense as to why this is necessary and useful.”
This is how they are thanking them, by giving them immunity.
[1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-06-14/u-s-agenci...
Did you even read the original link, or anything anyone posted in the thread so far?
Some companies already have legal contracts with you to protect your private data. Are you implying they can break those contracts?
I need actual scenarios written out, preferably based on an actual example EULA being violated. Not "maybe something scary might possibly happen in the future."
I see an exemption for anti-trust, and I see an immunity to other laws requiring disclosure (say, FOIA), but I do not see any immunity to violate previously established EULAs.
Do you?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/754...
Government couldn't have gotten it if you didn't collect it. Why should you be held responsible for storing data in an insecure fashion (which given the long arm of the government, translates to storing the data at all). This is especially true of data the average user isn't considering as being captured/stored, such as Microsoft's grabbing everything you do and storing it.
It is? Please explain why other people should be prepared to go to gaol or businesses should pay heavy fines to protect my personal information from legal(1) government requests? Particularly when I apparently don't care enough about the privacy of said information to the point that I allow it to be stored in the US, where apparently these sorts of shenanigans go on?
Edit: (because I'm being downvoted to death, which I don't think the comment deserves)
These companies agree that our data should be private and protected. They are not prepared to take heavy penalties to protect those rights. Anger should not be directed at these companies, but rather at the completely fucked up US government approach to privacy. At the end of the day, whether these companies fight and get fined out of existence, or comply, the government will still end up getting your data. That's the problem, and it's the US government that has betrayed people, not the companies listed by this stupid site.
1. I'm personally dubious as to the legality of these orders, but for now the US judiciary don't seem to be opposing the executive on this one, at least for the time being, so hey, I guess it's legal...
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/06/zombie-bill-comes-back...
So even if you look at it from a purely tech perspective, it is not in these tech giant's interest to safe guard your privacy nor do they want you to think that your privacy should be safe guarded.
And of course everybody is always drooling to data mine these user bases and who knows, sell the data to insurance companies maybe. I'm sure they will find some loophole to allow this.
I think it's been fairly obvious for the past few years that privacy is being suppressed by malicious groups who have plans for user data. There's been really no resistance, except from niche groups who are encrypting everything-- but if it's only niche, it doesn't matter.
Google image search of "PRIVACY IS DEAD" + bus didn't turn up anything. Then I dropped the quotes and replaced dead with NSA, and got a bunch of bis pics with THANK YOU EDWARD SNOWDEN, so I don't think Google is part of this conspiracy.
http://www.bsa.org/~/media/Files/Policy/data/09142015CongLea...
Use free-as-in-speech and open technology. Then, you can know what it's doing and modify it if you don't like it.
The politicians, voters, bureaucrats, and judges involved in these actions have committed a horrible abuse of their fellow citizens, and (depending on your views on moral obligations to foreigners) an even larger number of other people. The companies they are forcing to cooperate have not betrayed the people any more than a taxpayer does when they (are coerced to) pay taxes that fund these programs.
They betrayed anyone trusting them with their private data and anyone who believed their pro-privacy declarations.
People use Google countless times per day for a plethora of purposes, many of which are smoothly functioning and immensely powerful tools which are given freely.
How many times do you interact with your city, state, or federal government per day? What about per decade?
I don't get this. Are people expecting companies to break the law? Is this data hand-off voluntary?
This does not seem to apply in the context where companies are lobbying for / supporting new laws.
Even if there was a contract involved, clauses of the contract can be judged to be unconscionable if they are obviously trying to take advantage of the other party in an unusual or misleading way, or if they try to extend the scope of the contract.
Tell that to Uber. Or AirBnB. Both of which violate the law, working to overturn the laws, or entice their users to ignore legally binding obligations. These are flagrant disregards for the legal ramifications.
And they aren't he only two. There are many companies out there who break the law. See Volkswagen and the emissions debacle they find themselves in.
History is rife with companies breaking the law. Just look at Apple. Microsoft. Google. All these companies have broken the law. And in each case, they've fought against what they think is wrong.
Do companies have to operate within the parameters of the law?
No.
That's an interesting assertion. Do you live in the same reality as the rest of us?
The one I can understand - companies being compelled to share with the government. However is this act also giving these companies to share with each other?
Thank you.
yet continually they seem to be actually fighting for privacy.
I admire that, but they're still an insanely large target, and, even if they don't share that information now- you can bet they're tracking/logging it... it's their business model.
The grey zone between privacy and public keeps morphing. Problem is what kind of data/information should be public and what should not be public. And in what form? In what timeframe? Some information could be very benificial for one (company, person, government, institution, etc.) , but have horrible consequences for others.
But they seem to be orders of magnitude better at keeping it safe than, let's say, your government or health insurance companies that have orders of magnitude more data than Google.
I trust more my data with a business than with a government. Business have a lot to lose by leaking or selling your data, governments couldn't care less.
PS: TOR will be so happy.
More users = more noise = more anonymity.
So if commonly used .onion domains start springing up, exit nodes won't feel any crunch. :-)
Imagine reddit082350235.onion, for example...
No doubt a number of people tried to challenge the companies liability in these matters after the Snowden leaks and I'm wondering if anything interesting eventuate from it.
Of course they are.
The Wikipedia summary is a bit limited, but basically the security services OK'd (and indeed ordered, I think) the company to ship weapon parts to Iraq past an embargo.
However, nobody told the customs authorities, who spotted it and started to prosecute the directors of the company. Their only defence was their (classified) instructions from the MOD which it would have been illegal for them to mention in court. They might have gone to jail had the whole thing not collapsed publicly.
In the US, it's quite concievable that someone could be ordered to do something by an NSL that is illegal.
But maybe I'm just optimistic and all play ball, nevertheless the world hate against the US will keep raising and being rightfully justified until one day the heat may be too much.
And some day in the future there might be a single European candidate that may run on an anti-US platform. Or maybe not.
I believe the Microsoft case in Ireland is about this question.
Edit: see also curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2015-09/cp150106en.pdf
"The Advocate General considers furthermore that the access enjoyed by the United States intelligence services to the transferred data constitutes an interference with the right to respect for private life and the right to protection of personal data, which are guaranteed by the Charter. Likewise, the inability of citizens of the EU to be heard on the question of the surveillance and interception of their data in the United States amounts, in the Advocate General’s view, to an interference with the right of EU citizens of the to an effective remedy, protected by the Charter."
=> therefore the "safe harbour" allowing the export of private data from the EU to US servers can and should be suspended.
Mirrorshades, check
Hackers living in the margins of an orwellian society, check
And all I wanted was a flying car.
WTF?
I know that personal attacks are not allowed in comments, but what on earth were you thinking when you wrote this comment?
Edit: Ok, we'll restore it, but with a less inflammatory title that is taken from the article's top paragraph. If someone suggests a better title we can change it again.
I did not read "Why we are leaving Heroku" because someone's gripes with a host I don't use is low-priority. Its effectively invisible to me. I am however interested in the broader story that impacts dozens of companies, changes to US law and the nature of privacy itself - so I read this one and it was clearly gathering more interest.
How about retitling the other story and merging the discussions?
I don't care if someone leaves Heroku for whatever reason so I'm not going to bother reading that story.
I do care that a bunch of companies are supporting a proposal for some horrible legislation, so I read this one. Now no-one else will.