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Comment by javajosh | Hacker News Reader

Agreed. The problem is that, in the public's mind, there remains ambiguity about whether water-boarding is torture, and whether torture is wrong. (Yes and yes, FYI). Without real action taken against John Brennan, GWBush, and various people in the CIA the US has lost it's principles, it's backbone.

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I blame so much on the media in this area. They spread lies and confusion with the constant barrage of debates about whether waterboarding really was torture.

History will not judge us kindly.

One can opt out of "us" relatively easily by moving their personal support (i.e. tax revenue, GDP contribution, et c) elsewhere to a place that supports the universal application of human rights regardless of skin color, religious affiliation, or national origin.

In 2008 I left my job, girlfriend, friends, and family behind to do so. It's tough but it's possible.

Can you please elaborate on that? As of now, it sounds like you left behind everyone you knew in order to change how your taxes are spent.

I'm assuming they emigrated and renounced US citizenship. Would be interesting to hear how and where etc though.

I didn't renounce my citizenship because I do not have any other citizenship, and my place of residence will not give me a residence permit without a passport to paste it into.

It's not surprising at all that this is the case. The mainstream media is not directly responsible for these decisions, it is in fact controlled by the powers that be to not report against the establishment. Blaming the media is missleading, it suggests they are responsible, when actually they are held on a tight leash. Many non mainstream sources however do report on these issues but obviously their influence is tiny in comparison.

I'm not normally one to jump on the "it's the media" bandwagon, but it's unusually true in this case, although not in the way you present it. I think that shows and movies have show "the good guys" using torture more and more frequently, and this has actually changed our perception of right and wrong.

(For example: 24, Almost Human, Batman...almost too many to list. It's funny to watch the second Rambo movie and ask yourself if there's any difference at all between the russians in afghanistan in the 80's and the US there in the 00's.)

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