Comment by burp3141 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by burp3141 | Hacker News Reader

My manager and I had a 10 year relationship going. I had just transitioned to a new role, had a new born and taken on too much. I was feeling it for 6 months but finally broke at around 9 months. I told him I couldn't do it anymore and that I wanted a sabbatical. I told them that my backup plan was to just quit.

He talked me off the ledge and within a day had transitioned my troublesome projects to others and moved me to a four day work week to recover. He had to run this by manager's three levels up, do an insane amount of HR paperwork (fulltime -> not fulltime, pro-rated salary adjustment, etc.). All this happened in a space of two days.

I stayed on a four day week for a couple of months. It was magical. He retained my reduced workload when I came back full time.

His first comment when I initially cracked - "you should have come to me sooner".

The quick reaction, sympathy and support I got cemented my loyalty to an outstanding manager.I'm still here a couple of years later.

I would like to interject: This heavily depends on the boss. I've seen great bosses who will make stuff like this happen, and I've seen terrible bosses who don't give a shit. Make sure you work for the right-kind of boss if you are going to take this approach!

Speaking as a boss who I'd like to think falls into the former category... If you don't ask you won't know what they'll do for you or not. Could be your boss doesn't help or makes it worse then you know exactly what to do next - quit,move to another team, or take it to hr id its really hostile. That dick boss is probably the reason for your burnout (aka situational depression caused by work) so the solution is in moving on.

[Also as a boss] I'm fully convinced that a lot of the badmouthing you hear about "bad bosses" comes from people who never made any effort to create a functional bidirectional trust relationship with their boss. There certainly are bad bosses, and I would never claim otherwise, but I think we'd all be better off if there was as much employee development training on "how to build a relationship with your boss" as there is "how to be a boss" training.

This is a great point. More times than I'd like to admit I've found out someone working for me had worked themselves up worried about something that we could've resolved in 5 min with a simple conversation. If you're anxious about something at work just come our with it and find out where you really stand. The thing about worrying is the vast majority of the time it's wasted on things that aren't true or will never happen.

Speaking on behalf of all non sucky bosses don't let issues fester - just tell us what's up. Maybe we can help.

I suspect many hacker types do have problems with the small talk, I know I do.

When I broke down and got sick I started cognitive behavioral therapy and among the things we talked about was expectations. It turned out that I didn't really know what my boss' expectation of me was. What I thought his expectation was were one of the things that broke me. And it was all fantasy. Lesson learned. Be frank and honest, don't be afraid to talk to your boss. Make sure you get answers that are explicit and something you understand. Make sure it's not cloudy company and management pep talk that you can't even remember a few minutes after the meeting.

Me and my boss talked a lot, and I ended staying in the company, but switched boss. :)

The worst case scenario is your boss does nothing, you speak to your bosses boss who also does nothing, and you quit because that's your only route to retaining sanity which is essentially what happens if you don't talk to anyone anyway.

"Make sure you work for the right-kind of boss if you are going to take this approach!"

Also if you aren't going to take this approach (if you have the luxury).

Any manager which cares about their employees would say that, "you should have come to me sooner." Only issue is how many managers are actually empathetic?

IMO it depends on the employee. I have some where I'd for sure go to bat to keep them around. I have some who slack off, put in minimal hours, and do a terrible job checking their work. They're a net positive, but barely, and if they were to throw a fit like that I'd tell them to take a hike.

At the line manager level, probably many, even most. Empathy is selected against for promotion at most corporations, so if the OP is reporting to someone who is already a senior manager or aspiring to become one, it's unlikely.

That said, even the most cold-blooded bastard is going to make an effort to keep any middling-or-better employee right now. It's too hard to find competent replacements.

This is a good story, and I'm glad your boss reacted well. But, it sort of bothers me how it's not considered acceptable in this world to take a sabbatical. Why are companies so against the idea of people taking a few months off in a row, especially if otherwise they would just quit?

A sabbatical can be long (and is not "vacation time" or "sick leave") because by default it's unpaid.

So it's in the developer's interest as well for the manager to figure out a way to reshape his/her job to make it sustainable (and thus keep the paychecks coming) rather than just saying "uh, sure, go deal with your problems, take as long as you need; when you run out of money we'll still have your job here for you."

Plus -- "first newborn in the house" is something that causes upheaval for maybe 6 months or so, and then life settles down again. If you have a supportive/flexible work environment then "up all night with a crying baby" here and there (before the baby grows out of that stage!) doesn't result in crushing stress and visions of disaster.

Edit for more context -- we have a developer who works part time and sometimes takes long sabbaticals -- switching into his alter-ego as a theater director. It's quite a different sort of situation from someone who has a newborn and is burning out.

> Plus -- "first newborn in the house" is something that causes upheaval for maybe 6 months or so, and then life settles down again.

Ha! That's fine until they get to 8 months and stop sleeping through the night again (which apparently is a common thing). A few weeks of chronic sleep deprivation can absolutely destroy your ability to do anything vaguely brain-work-related.

But -- after 6 months the parents' level of expertise is significantly higher.

I have two kids, 3 and 6. The second was hard, but we knew what were getting into, largely, and how to survive it. The first was... rough.

I'm not sure about sleeping through the night stuff -- we did the co-sleeping thing, which helps a lot! But still, by 8 months I'll bet the parents would have some strategy in place -- maybe "hey, tonight's your night to wear earplugs" coupled with strategic naps.

Even managers/companies that would be happy for someone to take a few months sabbatical from their job would probably not want to be asked a day or two before the sabbatical would start.

You're employed because a specific amount of work needs to be done within a specified amount of time.

If you're not going to do it, who will?

The work might wait a week or two (vacation), but do you really think the clients will be OK waiting months (sabbatical)?

The only industry where it's acceptable to just take off is within academia and that's mostly because most of the teaching is done by staff that would never have the option of a sabbatical to begin with.

If you let them quit instead, will you be able to find anyone(s) who will handle that work, and how fast will they get up to speed? And if the person's burnt out, is their schedule packed already to the point where things like "documentation" and "refactoring" are "nice to haves" instead of necessities?

This isn't black and white. The options aren't sabbatical or disaster.

Time off is not a solution. The problem will simply resurface when the person comes back.

The solution is to re-organize the work. Hire an additional person, if needed. Add work that the employee will enjoy and that will be relaxing. That's a solution.

If the company isn't interested in solutions, then the solution for the employee is still not a sabbatical. The solution is to quit and find a company that isn't so myopic.

> If you're not going to do it, who will?

And if you're hit by a bus, then what? The company goes under? People shouldn't exactly be replaceable, but they also shouldn't be carrying the entire company on their shoulders. No wonder they get burnt out.

This comment made me less cynical.

Thumbs up for this sorta reaction from managers. A boss should be a mentor and not someone you are afraid to go to, especially when times get rough.

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