Hacker News Reader

Comment by chaostheory | Hacker News Reader

The internet is not the main culprit for the decline of both the brothel and prostitution; it's only helping to accelerate it. The main reason is probably due to the Sexual Revolution, as well as the lowered importance of marriage in modern society. It's no longer taboo to engage in sex outside of marriage and divorce is commonplace and no longer a scandal.

View on HN

freakonomics has a chapter about this and it agrees with what you say, with somewhat convincing evidence.

In addition to what you mention, things that you could only find at a brothel (oral & anal sex, or less usual things) are also not taboo anymore.

Pretty sure you could find oral and anal sex throughout human history with non-prostitute intimate partners, just maybe not all of them or at least varying rates depending on the era.

Some women and men love these sexual acts so it seems like they would pursue them even in the past. Maybe people are more open to admitting that they engage in these activities than those folks in the past, as well.

Maybe you can find plenty of this before the Dark Ages, but after that - I'm not so sure especially once Victorian culture starts to spread.

Especially since without contraception, vaginal sex would have been an issue even inside marriages (given that not everybody would have wanted continuous pregnancies).

You are undoubtedly right that these things have always happened, but the rate changed drastically since the 19th century.

Keep in mind that even plain premarital sex for women was a taboo until very recently.

Is there a decline in prostitution generally? When I add up everybody on Craigslist's "Therapeutic Services" board, plus the listings on Backpage, plus the people registered on "Sugar Baby" forums, plus the classical newspaper listings, it seems like prostitution has increased.

total prostitution advertising is probably not (entirely) related to total prostitution occurrence. Ease, volume, and affordability of advertisement services have probably gone up with technical advances, word of mouth, etc etc.

There is both a decline in prostitution as well as a huge decline in prostitute salaries. At the turn of the 19th - 20th century, prostitutes who weren't madams were making the equivalent of about $400,000 - 500,000.

This sounds surprisingly large; is there a source on this? Prostitutes in countries currently at equivalent levels of economic/social development to the 1900s west certainly aren't making that much.

It's no longer taboo to engage in sex outside of marriage

I don't know what planet you live on, but I'm fairly sure, side from open marriages where the couple mutually agrees to this, sex outside marriage isn't so much taboo as explicitly ruled out by definition.

And while divorce may not be a "scandal" per se, its certainly not considered desireable.

In short, you seem to have a bizarre view of marriage in the modern world.

sex outside marriage isn't so much taboo as explicitly ruled out by definition

You're using different definitions. By "sex outside of marriage," the previous commenter means "two unmarried people having sex," i.e., what's sometimes called "premarital sex." This indeed is no longer taboo in much, probably most, of the West.

It sounds like you're taking "sex outside marriage" to mean "sex with outside partners, while married."

I think the intended meaning here is "sex without being married" (or at least that's how I interpret it).

Doh... You're absolutely right...

> The internet is not the main culprit for the decline of both the brothel and prostitution; it's only helping to accelerate it.

VR is going to be how that happens. I tried out VR pornography and there is very little a strip club offers over it: food, company and drinks. It's what made me realize what the true potential of the platform is.

It would be possible to implement a brothel with VR and teledildonics which, while not 100% real, would neatly skirt all the issues with real brothels: the law, pregnancies, customers who fall in love, the STDs and the moral leap required to walk into one. I'd do it myself if I hadn't figured out something far simpler to get off the ground.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com