Introducing Twitch Creative | Hacker News Reader

Introducing Twitch Creative

blog.twitch.tv

104 pointsdsil72 comments

Wait... so they started JustinTV which was for anything. Games took off so they spun that off to TwitchTV. JustinTV gets shut down, and now they start 'allowing' other types of things on TwitchTV. I have no idea what the marketing and 'brands' people over there are thinking really...

The difference between then and now is that YouTube Streaming and Periscope are now potential threats.

They are using the better-working brand for re-entering these markets after the first attempt failed years ago... seems logical to me? The name JustinTV IMHO has a lot of negative baggage attached because it wasn't very successful for so long.

It was also an objectively terrible name. I thought it was just iJustine's personal webcasting site.

It wasn't terrible for its original purpose, which was to livestream a man named Justin's life continuously, a la the Truman Show.

It dilutes Twitch as a place for gaming, though.

EDIT: Downvoted, maybe I wasn't clear enough. Context is very important within a brand. If you start offering all types of videos on Twitch, the landing page isn't just going to show gaming videos any longer.

Does it significantly damage the image of Twitch as the place to go for gaming streams? YouTube has been gaining a lot of high production quality content makers for a while now (e.g. web series and music videos) but I feel like it still holds its reputation as the place to go for more independently made content as well.

I didn't mean to insinuate it was damaging, just that the brand would be diluted. Yes, if they can pull it off and maintain and support the different communities - then it won't be "damaged."

Sure. But we've yet to see any competitor affect Twitch's dominance in gaming by any real margin, so it seems unlikely that people who have been using it exclusively for gaming will be turned off when other things become available. I mean, they have a dedicated viewer base which won't really care what Twitch does with their homepage. It's like Amazon expanding from just selling books to selling everything. People looking for books are still gonna keep going there.

They've realised TwitchTV is a much stronger brand that JustinTV ever was?

Also, iirc wasn't JustinTV polluted/tainted with a lot of dodgy re-streams of non-user-created content such as soccer?

It's a success story that they've managed to successfully cultivate twitch out of that and grown it up where they can now branch other user-streaming back from it.

Maybe this is the Amazon effect on the management?

I thought that they would spin off this Creative product in a new independent business venture so it won't clash with the established Twitch brand name or dilute it due to conflicting dynamics at play but this is Amazon after all and we're used to expect the unexpected from them.

Seems like perfectly sensible decision to me. Perhaps you should try to find objective reasons for this product development approach instead of insinuating incompetence of "brand" people?

They're trying to build ecosystems around streaming. Gaming has taken off and is sustaining itself, so it only makes sense for them to try and expand into newer realms.

i assume they are thinking that they'd like to expand into new areas, and this was the best way they could think of to do it. do you have a better idea?

You have to realize that artists were already using Twitch to do what they are now providing a category for those same people to stream under. I've watched clay, 3D, 2D, etc artists on Twitch; I've watched/listened to DJs, including deadmau5, play with their equipment for hours on stream. These same people also tend to play games now and again, and a lot of the graphical artists tend to have gaming themes. The same is probably true for all of the streamers that will use this category.

Justin.tv people are no more the driving force. This is an Amazon move 100%.

The person leading this effort is literally the second Justin.tv hire from many years ago.

The world has changed much since 2007!

From the updated Rules of Conduct:

   D.I.Y. & Other Permitted Content 
   In addition to content that adheres to our Creative Rules of Conduct, we have determined the following type of do-it-yourself activities are also appropriate to broadcast in Creative:

   Cooking your own recipes
   Building custom PCs
   Assembling your Twitch broadcast setup
   Furniture hacks/customization
   Model making

Huh, that's certainly a variety of things they now allow. It makes the exceptions impossible to penalize since there's a giant gray area for what's considered "creative."

I wonder if it'd be okay to stream writing a novel or something? Not sure who would want to watch such a thing, but it might draw a niche audience if the author was zany enough.

I'd expect it would be. Not that much different from watching someone coding a game or spending a few hours in Excel working out game strategies.

I remember some interest in watching Silvia Hartmann write a novel in a Google Doc a few years back:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2012/sep/12/novel...

Just searched #writing and found someone writing poetry in MS word and taking a lot of suggestions from their one viewer.

There is a popular streamer LethalFrag who used to do cooking and his followers loved it. I believe he had to stop so that's a case for cooking. I think twitch is just happy to explore other areas slowly and are hesitant about copyright issues.

Destiny does PC building and musical composition (when he streams), but I didn't know it was against the Twitch TOS.

>First, starting today, you’ll see an entirely new landing page for the Creative category. This includes a dedicated Featured Video carousel

http://shouldiuseacarousel.com

>Third, we’ve updated our Rules Of Conduct to reflect our official embrace of the Creative community. In short, we encourage you to broadcast your creative process on Twitch, be that visual art, woodworking, costume creation, prop building, music composition, or any other process in which you entertain and connect around a creative activity. We understand that this is vague. We expect to learn much about what is, and is not, appropriate for Twitch as the community grows.

Oh boy I can't see that going wrong

I found the featured video carousel to be quite effective, they show one big livestream video with the carousel dots being a preview of the other choices. It's different from the shouldiuseacarousel.com example.

> http://shouldiuseacarousel.com

There are certainly good use cases for carousels. This is one of them.

The most annoying thing about shouldiuseacarousel.com is the fact that it slides too often - before I've had a chance to finish reading!

That is deliberate. They're highlighting one of the flaws of this design.

If your primary content is video's, then a carousel with thumbnails and no autorotation may be a very good UX element. You can't play multiple videos at the same time so showing extra full sized videos via scrolling is out of the question. Go to any video sites (i.e. YouTube, Vimeo) and you'll see that they all have what's effectively a carousel.

> http://shouldiuseacarousel.com

Yeah, but Amazon LOVES Carousels.

I like the twitch platform, technologically, but this really needs to be a separate site entirely. If it's connected to twitch, it'll have all the stupid twitch spam and emotes and nerds saying OMG GRILL constantly.

Hasn't happened to MissCookiez yet (best Creative streamer on Twitch). I also saw a cooking channel where someone was baking Hearthstone scones which seemed alright. Not the biggest but a few thousand viewers at least.

This girl handles situations extraordinarily well. Many people tried to troll, but her attitude simply does not allow it.

>I like the twitch platform, technologically

You shouldn't. Twitch is still holding onto Flash. They could have really leveraged their position as the most used streaming site to push for adoption of HTML5 streaming. They have a HLS mode, but it's only supported on Safari/Mobile/Edge.

afaik this is no longer true. At least for me (using Chrome) I no longer get the Flash viewer but the new HTML5 one.

The player controls run in HTML5, but for me (using Chromium with no flash), videos still do not play.

Actually, the player controls on the video recently[1] switched to 100% HTML5. And the video portion is switching over next year[2].

[1] http://blog.twitch.tv/2015/07/video-player-controls-now-in-h... [2] http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/25/twitch-html5-whisper-twit...

Also, if you're on a browser that supports it (I think only Safari at this point), it'll fall back to HTTP Live Streaming. I've gotten it to run in a 100% Flash-free environment.

They are moving over to html5 when HLS comes, if I'm not mistaken.

They are, in the meantime, settings things up to make the transition easier, e.g. moving the video controls out of the video, moving chat out of flash, etc etc

We have been using HLS exclusively for about two years now. The flash player plays the HLS stream. We will remove flash completely in 2016.

You can do "pip install livestreamer" to install livestreamer which will automatically open the Twitch HLS URLs in VLC or another media player of your choice.

Of course Twitch should support HTML5 video though, no idea why they aren't.

I'd assume because DASH is generally a newer spec, and HLS was driven by mobile usage

Don't confuse DASH and HTML5. DASH was announced VERY shortly after HLS (within the same year). And both of these predate modern video on the web. HTML5 video does not play DASH anyway. MSE can play the same binary format as DASH, but that format was developed by microsoft for smooth streaming first.

The player is a small part of the entire platform. Flash will be completely removed next year.

Hi, we've cultivated a massive audience of angry young men, you sensitive arty types wanna come over? Bob Ross is still your king, right? /s

Snark aside, I do love the opportunity for artists to have a way to earn money along their entire workflow. I'd imagine that Twitch would be more lucrative than youtube live stuff, maybe? And Patreon is missing the boat by not diversifying the kind of things that be delivered to supporters. But I'd almost want to have tried it under a totally new brand. Some gamers can be caustic, and even the FAQ is defensive: "Creative on Twitch does not come at the expense of all the awesome gaming channels"

Overall I like it and think that it's a great use of their tech, I really hope the community side works out.

> Some gamers can be caustic

Some humans can be caustic.

> But I'd almost want to have tried it under a totally new brand.

Then nobody would notice and they would be promoting the idea that gamers are caustic.

I don't understand why you replied to me.

They could easily do it under a secondary/separate brand without offering any suggestion that gamers are caustic.

Yes, some humans are caustic, but the arts and crafts communities are not notoriously so.

Twitch already has support for artists livestreaming, it's great to see official support for it. Will give it a try next time I do some digital painting.

Also check out http://livecoding.tv, for programming livestreams

Isn't this what Deadmau5 was doing before he took his operation solo for more money direct to himself[1]?

I've been using Periscope as my method of broadcast, and its tie in with Twitter has been helpful. Then I can download from my device, tweak, and upload to YouTube. This goes for live jam sessions with friends, talking through making recordings in Ableton Live and other software, and doing DJ sets / guitar jam sessions for fun.

I mean, if it's got a better value proposition, great, might be worth a look...but there's a lot of fatigue in constantly chasing different outlets. Any thoughts would be welcome to consider, thanks in advance.

[1] Edit: Solo as in using his subscription / pay me model in ways that 'normal' Twitch Creative accounts probably don't have access or demand for right now (see replies below)

Deadmau5 just forged a pretty extensive partnership with Twitch. http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/30/deadmau5-is-on-twitch/

Right, but what I kind of meant was that he used his celebrity to get himself a better setup and unique situation. I'm pretty sure he runs some "exclusive" type deals to people who subscribe and pay him monthly. As in, he's using Twitch to make himself better off, rather than simply joining the platform because he's trying to make the place more interesting or unique. It's a difficult thing I'm trying to say, sorry if it comes off obtuse.

This makes me think that Amazon thought they were buying YouTube when they really were buying ESPN for gaming. Twitch is a fantastic business -- and I wish them all the best -- but this doesn't play to their strengths at all.

How does this jive with Twitch's adult content/nudity policy, which is somewhat restrictive? Where is Twitch going to draw the line on art, and will "Twitch Creative" have different rules than gaming streams?

They don't really mind nudity in games, so I don't expect them to mind nudity in drawings.

Maybe I'm not clear on the rules. I know that streaming shirtless (as a dude) is not allowed.

I mean, if you've got a nude model that you're drawing, that may be an issue. But almost certainly not with drawing itself.

From the FAQ:

Q. Are nude or gory depictions allowed on Creative?

A. We are working on ways to ensure that artists can produce the work that they want, while also fostering a safe space for the community as a whole. We ask that you refrain from creating or using depictions of nudity or extreme violence until those features are implemented.

I wonder if Safe Space means they'll follow the MPAA guidelines.

This is great news for my fellow creatives. Excited to take a shot at this.

As noted in the Deadmau5 article linked, there may be some rights management issues to consider.

For example, having music on in the background without a broadcast license may not be allowed.

Not sure how this plays out.

This seems like a good business move, brings more niche communities, like gamers used to be, into their platform to foster more growth and users.

This is terrific. I wished for something like this.

Great news..

I love Twitch. It would be my vector to destroy a generation.

"It’s been an amazing privilege to watch live video grow up".. really?

Eh, I can see where they're going with it. Some things have just been traditionally difficult in the tech sector over the past 20 years. Sending images. Streaming audio. Streaming video.

Now, with so many seemingly solved riddles, finding the next hard ones are getting more and more niche oriented. One of them a la JamKazam is getting latency down enough to effectively jam music over the internet. That's a tough one.

Why not?

It's corporatespeak. Meaningless platitudes.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com