Comment by mikeash | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mikeash | Hacker News Reader

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Regarding that last, I don't buy it. Products can be produced differently, or can be substituted. There are many success stories of destructive products either being banned or having their production regulated and people either switch to something else or figure out how to produce it less destructively.

Not long ago, you might have said "freon is used everywhere" or "leaded gasoline is used everywhere" or "asbestos is used everywhere" and as long as there is demand, supply will be there too. But people didn't just give up, they fought, and won.

Edit: all three replies (as of right now) seem to be saying the same thing: that what I'm proposing doesn't work with market forces, and requires government regulation. Which is exactly what I'm saying: just because capitalism dictates that this continues doesn't mean we have to put up with it, we can ban palm oil or at least ban palm oil farmed in a harmful manner, and fix the problem.

But it took years for leaded gasoline, asbestos, and freon to be replaced. And that only happened because they were made illegal or regulated out of certain uses, not because a better alternative existed that the market preferred.

This is a job for a functional government, not for capitalism. But it doesn't sound like help is on the way anytime soon.

Or perhaps a functional international regime, pretty much the opposite role that the WTO and TPP fulfill.

That only happens when the new solution is better and cheaper, or the old solution becomes illegal. And more importantly, almost exclusively in the First World, where taking advantage of an entire country is a little harder.

The trick with palm oil is that it is in so many products you might not even know it. Food, beauty products, industrial usage and the majority of names used in the ingredients doesn't even contain 'palm' in it for most cases. The other historic cases you made were easily identified and segregated by product or end-use. Indonesia and Malaysia, normally at odds with each other on certain subjects, are forming a palm oil cartel to even further push for global usage of the product that has brought them money without regards to the environment.

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