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Comment by maukdaddy | Hacker News Reader

The State Dept. isn't playing second fiddle. They simply can NOT come out as publicly as Google did, for many reasons. As the "official" foreign voice of the US Govt there are serious repercussions to coming right out and accusing China. Secondly, they would not tip their hand on any intelligence they received, or were actively receiving, on Chinese infiltrations in cyberspace.

While our Gov't isn't very good at some things, I can guarantee that they were aware of what was going on. There have been many well-publicized instances over the past 10 years where the Govt' has uncovered intrusions into commercial companies.

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That's exactly my primary point - Government, as you say, can not come out publicly and have their hands tied in many ways. Google can, and this, combined with their size, konwledge and brand, makes them a strong player in international politics. In this particular instance they are clearly the lead that everyone else, including the state department, follows.

As for your second point, I totally agree. There might be a good chance the government knew, I'm no security expert so I'll refrain from taking a stance. That's why I added the footnote :-)

> Google can, and this, combined with their size, konwledge and brand, makes them a strong player in international politics.

Nothing new here. Big business has been taking a leadership role in international politics for decades. See: WTO.

You're right, and it seems to be an escalating trend. There are plenty of examples, but none as big as this. Maybe there will be more if the trend continues.

The corporation has been immensely powerful for hundreds of years, e.g., United Fruit and British East India Company.

I'm not sure Google were wise to be all that public about this either. If China decides to bear a grudge, things could get very nasty for them.

"If China decides to bear a grudge, things could get very nasty for them."

How? Once Google moves out of China what can the Chinese government do to them?

Attack them daily

That would be tantamount to a blockade of shipping lines, ie an act of war. They are certainly able to do it, but I don't think that right now they will.

Couldn't they just remove access to all Google sites from the entire Chinese IP range? That should help greatly.

How so?

'who will rid me of this turbulent priest?'

And how will China's "knights" deal with Google? Presumably it involves less swords than the assassination of Thomas Becket?

Google doesn't need China; even the Nexus One is made in Taiwan. Unlike most other large companies (and all governments), they're in an excellent position to call out the Chinese government.

  even the Nexus One is made in Taiwan

How long do you think Taiwan is going to last as an autonomous entity, now that it can no longer rely on the US for military support, because the US is in hock to the PRC?

This is even worse than your earlier point about Chinese dumping dollars. The PRC would barely be able to invade Taiwan right now even without US aid. Worse for your point is that the US could screw over the PRC without firing a shot simply by repudiating the debt the Chinese hold.

When you owe China $1 billion, you've got a problem. When you own China $684 billion, China has a problem.

The US was just as much in hock to the PRC in 1996, when Clinton decided to sail a few aircraft carriers through the Taiwan Straits. After that, the PRC lost their taste for attacking Taiwan.

The reintegration of Taiwan will happen through a political arrangement between the CPC and the KMT, not through war.

How long do you think Taiwan is going to last as an autonomous entity, now that it can no longer rely on the US for military support, because the US is in hock to the PRC?

The PRC owns many pieces of paper. Attacking Taiwan would be an excellent reason to repudiate the value of that paper.

That would be great - imagine if everyone worked like that. How would anyone ever collect on their loans? I owe you $50? Well, you hit my cousin the other day...

Learn more history.

So if history tells us that some countries have reneged on loans through war, that's what the operating manual says countries should do today?

Countries have been pillaging, raping and committing genocide for eons - that means this is how countries are expected to act now?

Moreover, Page and Brin met with Obama once or twice during the campaign for some pretty in-depth meetings. More than the government "knowing", this response could very well be deniably calibrated with the US government's knowledge and advice.

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