Edward Snowden and spread of encryption blamed after Paris terror attacks
dailydot.com
dailydot.com
There is a very interesting video [0] of Noam Chomsky, after the 9/11 attacks, where he says that any government and regime worth it's salt will use 9/11 as an excuse to push their agenda over the public.
And they will do so using their fear.
[0] <For the life of me, I couldn't locate the video. Will update the post if I do.>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_C...
10 of 25 signing members of PNAC were high level bush administration workers. PNAC was explicitly neoconservative and most definitely wanted to be involved in more wars abroad.
It seems to me that just as the NBA is full of (some of) the tallest people in the country, the Congress and White House are full of the people who are most capable of believing whatever they have to at any given moment.
When that amount of money and power is at stake, there's no room for people who are earnest.
The rationale was that Hussein needed to be replaced. Iraq was too unstable and it might fall to Iran, which would upset the power balance in the middle east. I think Afghanistan was thrown in as an afterthought because, you know, "terrorists".
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/10/oneill.bush/
> (CNN) -- The Bush administration began planning to use U.S. troops to invade Iraq within days after the former Texas governor entered the White House three years ago, former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill told CBS News' 60 Minutes.
> "From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go," O'Neill told CBS, according to excerpts released Saturday by the network. "For me, the notion of pre-emption, that the U.S. has the unilateral right to do whatever we decide to do, is a really huge leap."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bush-sought-way-to-invade-iraq/
> He got briefing materials under this cover sheet. "There are memos. One of them marked, secret, says, 'Plan for post-Saddam Iraq,'" adds Suskind, who says that they discussed an occupation of Iraq in January and February of 2001
> Based on his interviews with O'Neill and several other officials at the meetings, Suskind writes that the planning envisioned peacekeeping troops, war crimes tribunals, and even divvying up Iraq's oil wealth.
For reference, the towers fell on Sept 11, 2001.
For the rationale my understanding mostly derives from various reddit threads (e.g. [1]), a friend who majored in criminology, and this fantastic overview of Iraq at Wait but Why [2].
[0] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bush+iraq+invasion+before+9%2F11
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1lx1s7/oil_pl...
[2] http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/09/muhammad-isis-iraqs-full-story...
> The US Department of Defense had placed the final documents on Bush's desk (ready for him to sign) 48 hours prior to the fall of the first tower.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/05/bush-m18.html
> From this standpoint, the most important of the week’s revelations was the report by NBC News that Bush had on his desk September 9—two days before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon—a National Security Presidential Directive outlining in detail a worldwide campaign of military, diplomatic and intelligence action targeting Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda organization, including the delivery of an ultimatum to the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, backed by the threat of war.
UPDATE: Incidentally, my search led me to a Guardian article which claims that a plan to "escalate pressure on the Taliban to surrender Bin Laden to he US" had existed as far back as the Clinton administration. This is new to me.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/mar/24/september11.usa...
0: http://rethink911.org/ 1: http://www.globalresearch.ca/twenty-six-things-about-the-isl...
Note how the government also uses times like these to rush through new policies around privacy.
Did phone tapping stop the US from preventing 9/11? No.
Wait, what? It's been almost seven years since Bush left office. 100% of the blame rests on the men who donned suicide vests and massacred innocent Parisians. It doesn't matter how horrific US foreign policy is. Responding by killing a bunch of French civilians is not even remotely reasonable. Seriously, how does someone go from "US foreign policy killed my countrymen" to "let's slaughter random French people"?
> I don't know. Let's ask President Obama why he bombed a hospital and gunned down survivors as they ran away. Western foreign policy kills innocent people. Sometimes they're angry enough about it to kill you right back.
If you're talking about the Kunduz incident, your statement is absurd. Obama didn't know about the airstrike until afterwards. More importantly: US forces didn't intend to kill civilians. They mistakenly believed the building was being used by Taliban to fire upon coalition forces. It was a huge fuck-up. There is a big investigation. People will probably go to jail over it. Everyone involved agrees it's a tragedy.
Now contrast that to the Paris attacks. These deaths weren't an accident or collateral damage. The fanatics intended to kill as many innocent civilians as possible. They would have killed more if they'd had the ability to do so.
And notice the difference in reactions. After the hospital bombing, no Americans celebrated in the streets. Even the most hawkish politicians expressed their sadness at the tragedy. If you read Obama's statement, it's nothing but apologetic.[2] Now read the Islamic State's statement on the Paris attacks.[3] They praise the attackers and promise more to come. The two sides cannot be more different. You should feel ashamed for your equivocation.
1. Screenshots of me trying to reply and failing: http://imgur.com/a/daFeB
2. https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/10/03/state...
3. https://ent.siteintelgroup.com/Statements/is-claims-paris-at...
Predicting that the civil wars in Iraq and Syria would give a fertile ground for extremism to develop is no leap, and certainly doesn't condone it, and focusing on the guilt of specific extremists in each case won't teach us anything either.
I agree, as was the US dropping the A Bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. "Not even remotely reasonable" especially when the victims numbered in the tens of thousands. Innocent women and children included.
[1] http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/did-george-w-bush-cr...
https://twitter.com/LatuffCartoons/status/665541417763123200
It's possible that the perpetrators evaded surveillance with encryption. It's also possible that the perpetrators did have their phones tapped, but investigators dropped the ball. It's possible that they avoided phones and did all their planning in person. It's even possible that someone made an executive decision to not intervene and stop them, for political reasons.
As far as I know, none of Snowden's criticisms have been addressed at French organizations. While there's some possibility US intelligence agencies could have picked up on this, it's primarily a European matter and not the NSA's responsibility. This makes Snowden's having undermined the NSA quite unlikely to have been relevant.
That's very misleading, as the law was just voted and isn't in application yet.
It's all quite tedious.
First we lose our friends, then we'll lose our privacy? I was horrified by the reaction of some of my acquaintances back home in France: "Let's imprison all those who went to Syria", "We should forbid Tor if this is what those terrorists used to kill our people", and the now classic "if you don't do anything wrong, you shouldn't have anything to hide".
What's next?
Unless I missunderstood the question and they wanted to imprison all those who have been in Syria.
You could certainly do that on the basis of membership of a proscribed organisation, but...
> They were fighting for the enemy
Which enemy is that? The USA and UK are not currently at war with anyone in a legal sense.
I hope the government lets the state of emergency expire doesn't lower itself to the level of these criminals by taking any further action to undermine justice.
It makes me sad to read such things, especially from the tech-crowd.
Ban Internet because terrorists use it to communicate.
Much terrorism is an externality of Western foreign policy and a nation's abuse of it's citizens (domestic).
Whether Snowden or encryption enabled terrorism or not is TOTALLY missing or deflecting the real conversation that should be occurring. Do not fall into the trap of arguing. Ignore statements like OA. Instead ask "Why are people willing to kill themselves and others?" "What has France done / is doing so that people believe that is their best redress?" "Why do people become terrorists?". Most import of all (and the only way we will end terrorism). "How can we change the world so less people are compelled to such drastic action?"
However, I think this features far too prominently in a lot of people's outlooks than it should. Nothing, including terrorism is born in a vacuum but I don't think American involvement in Middle Eastern conflicts is the primary cause. Various Tsarist policies at the turn of the century are responsible for the conditions that gave rise to revolutionary communism in Russia, but communism was a greater force than Tsarist policies.
We are talking about a spectrum of religious-nationalist beliefs that are turning other wars, conflicts, slights, frustrations, rivalries and any other available fuel and putting it to use. This includes American policies in Iraq. They are fuelling it, but I really do not think they are creating it.
The NSA had bin laden's sat-phone line in the 90s. I've seen documentaries on it.
Snowden confirmed the extent of NSA surveillance in 2013.
So that's 12 years for which the GP's statement was true.
Advanced technologies allow them to know when these things are brewing, but per game theory they allow them to happen to not reveal that capability.
Encryption and Snowden have nothing to do with it. They are limited hangouts to gaslight and decrease the power of the lower echelons of government (you know, the regular people who might actually have stopped this).
And you know about them.....how? If you haven't realized, I'm asking you to provide a source for these extraordinary claims.
>Our Governments: "We spy on all of you to keep you safe". But why have your mass surveillance systems failed to prevent the Paris attacks?
1. We need this tool to stop terrorists. if you don't give up liberty for safety, the terrorists win.
2. (Inevitable terror attack happens)
3. Our tools weren't strong enough to stop the terrorists. We need _more_ tools and a larger mandate to stop them.
I've been told that, due to the above cycle, we should all realize that the primary purpose of government is to pretend to fail.
*edit: I do not mean to say that government officials were willfully negligent; they have been given an impossible task, and their jobs depend on believing that a little more money and power will allow them to succeed.
As no group of people can be 100% effective, they will always occasionally fail even if they succeed most of the time, and when they do their explanation for their own failure will always be "we needed more". And they will truly believe that! No secret agenda needed. From their POV it's the only answer they can possibly give.
I fully expect in the coming weeks to learn (shock) that the terrorists had Facebook accounts, used WhatsApp, searched on Google, used iPhones and the DGCE will undoubtably claim that if they had access to all those things the plot could have been detected earlier and stopped. What else are they gonna say? "Whoops, our bad"?
Additionally the article can be summarized as: "We don't know how the attacks were co-ordinated... so maybe strong encryption, and by proxy, Snowden, are to blame?"
The name of the article calls for itself:
Dragon Slayer Becomes The New Dragon
https://medium.com/@durov/dragon-slayer-becomes-the-new-drag...
Surprisingly, you only need a few terrorists to change international laws and double those military budgets. Snowden or not, it's the virus that comes first and the anti-virus after. I don't think any mass surveillance program can stop such actions unless you become a militia state which I highly doubt (and hope not) will ever happen.
If anything, mass surveillance is to blame for lack of intel. Before spying was so ubiquitous, terrorists might have said something on the phone or by email.
France has porous borders. They spent $1 BILLION over the past year on security "enhancements".
If evil people want to be evil, they are going to find a way.
(http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/spd-chef-gabriel-40-...)
Supposedly, this is not a problem - even though it is people from the country where ISIS terrorists operate.
At the same time, we have a continuous push for and actually new surveillance laws such as the dreaded 'Vorratsdatenspeicherung'.
That doesn't really fit together at all anymore...
Blame encryption and omit the violent nature of Islam.
Running an exit node is already a great way to end up in jail, and I would not have a warm fuzzy feeling about using tor for innocent traffic at this point, although it's perfectly legal.
Imagine how easily flagged users could be singled out if simply using crypto were a crime, and probable cause for search: e.g. you get caught using FDE on your phone or laptop at a traffic stop or the airport. Either your info is trivially purused at will by LE, or you've committed a crime by makeing it difficult and can be compelled on that basis. Either way, they're reading your mail if they feel like it.
The real value of this would be that almost no normal person would want to risk prosecution, so the overwhelming majority of user data could be easily mined. These are just a couple of crypto tools, but the technical details don't really matter here, I think this is a legal and social strategy that will generalize well, and it I think this is where we're inevitably headed.
We will have an extremely difficult time making all crypto illegal. Cryptography is crucial to important pieces of infrastructure we use for trust and security.
We may reach the point where certain implementation or tools are outlawed. In which case people with stuff to hide will piggyback it inside legal tools.
I suspect we will be more likely to see a combination of these approaches:
1) Forcing entities that sell products that provide encryption capabilities to maintain access for the government.
2) Pass laws that make it illegal to avoid or materially assist others in avoiding government surveillance without authorization
E.g. you can use SSL for commmerce, but it's got to "approved", in other words either technically, or organizationally backdoored.
Tangentially related: https://theintercept.com/2015/09/11/today-14th-anniversary-e...
Oh, idiot talking heads on TV news. Who cares?
If I wanted to know what idiots on TV think, I'd watch TV.
This is a false flag attack that serves a number of purposes. Slowing the push for encryption and generally boosting surveillance and domestic operations is one. As the western debt grows and the military position becomes thinner, it will become increasingly difficult to maintain the fiat that demands massive resource distribution imbalances. This will lead to serious shortages in western countries. In order to maintain power, the state turns its guns and spies inward.
But in the meantime the covert operations in Syria have not been completely successful, and since they need to do Syria before Iran (as has been planned for many years) they need to move to overt operations. This requires the propaganda to motivate it which needs a real event behind it.
It's known that governments have had plans as to how to get support from a tragedy if one happens. Is it that far fetched that preventing tragedies which are more likely but have a benefit to them for the government, would be considered at a somewhat lower priority than one which is less likely, but does not have any side benefit for the government?
Now, I'm not claiming that this is the case, not really, but it is something that comes to mind, and the most likely version of it does not seem that absurd?
As a practical matter of how this could occur, a small group of intelligence analysts could selectively withhold important information from decision makers, or decision makers could selectively ignore key pieces of information. Either can get you the result of allowing an attack while leaving plausible excuses as to why it wasn't deliberate.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/paris-attacks-raises-quest...
I guess it's new in the sense that it was applied to a particular attack, but that's not really a great reason to call it new. Good point.
However, I do think the minimal form of it I expressed in a way that seemed more likely than most of the time I see it?
(Which will of course do absolutely nothing at all to stop people from obtaining and using strong crypto.)