To See the Future of Electric Cars, Look East

To my knowledge, they're not. From the Reuters article cited:

> Tesla, most of whose cars are built to order directly, delivered 11,532 cars in the second period and said it had an operating loss of about $47 million, for an operating loss per car of about $4,000.

An operating loss of $4k/car is not the same thing as them each car costing $4k more than it sells for. The loss includes what they're spending on the battery factory, new model development, etc.

Supposedly, the Tesla Model 3 is going to be cheaper than the Chevy Bolt when it comes out.

"Musk points out that Chevy's claimed $30,000 price tag assumes the $7500 federal tax incentive for zero-emissions cars, putting the vehicle's true price at $37,500. The Model 3, Musk insists, will come in at $35,000 before any incentives, meaning buyers will only be on the hook for $27,500. And that's before any additional state-based incentives."

I think you're giving GM a bit too much credit here, there's one thing that's sorely lacking: Infrastructure.

Tesla already has a fantastic network of superchargers.

CCS(which GM is betting on) has very low penetration(Sea -> Portland is a dead-zone, also Portland -> North CA) compared to CHAdeMO.

Telsa has the advantage of a better infra(120kW vs 50kW) and the ability to use other standards like CHAdeMO.

> Don't matter where its built, but if you are only selling cars the top one percent can afford you are not changing the world.

Once upon a time, only the top one percent could afford cellular telephones. Now, subsistence farmers in the poorest nations in the world have them. Markets for these sorts of things frequently start with the rich, and then expand.

What previously failed luxury electric cars were there? When I think of previously failed electric cars, I think of stuff like the EV-1, but I'm not particularly knowledgeable here.

What pre-Tesla electric cars where aimed at the luxury market? The only one I can think of is the Fisker Karma, which was almost universally panned for shitty build quality. What Tesla did (with the Model S, at least) that Fisker couldn't was build a car that seems to have traveled back in time from a future where electric cars are ubiquitous. Sure, it's no supercar, but it can go 200 miles on a charge and it outshines its luxury sedan peers when it comes to acceleration and style. If I had to choose between a Tesla Model S and a BMW M6, I'd pick the Model S every time. But if I had to pick between a Nissan Leaf and a Ford Fiesta, I'd get the Fiesta, because cheap electric cars are compromised in a way that cheap petrol cars aren't. That's what Tesla did differently.

As someone who falls into the venn diagram of "cares about cars" and owns a Tesla I respectfully disagree :).

I think the better comparison is "cares about cars" -> "cares about only electric cars".

FWIW electric powertrains have been making it into high end car tech for a while, I think we're just seeing it move down-market now in interesting ways.

Regardless of whether Teslas are "good cars," (and while they're not particularly good sports cars, they are excellent sedans) they are desired cars. A ton of people who never gave a crap about EVs before now see Teslas as objects of desire. Many of them can't afford to buy one, but they think of them as "if I won the lottery...."

Then when a cheaper one comes out, it will be thought of as a cheaper version of that awesome car people always wanted to buy but could never afford, rather than a crappy "green" car for hippies.

How many new product categories started at the low end and expanded upwards? They always start out expensive and work their way down. In hindsight, it's bizarre that other attempts to produce EVs came at it from the low end.

The car referenced (a Xindayang D2) weighs 640 kg (1477 lbs). _That's_ the way to make a $20k electric car. Wish it were good, though.

But to an F-150, it's a bug on the windshield. For safety, maybe we could limit urban traffic to lighter-weight vehicles?

"Tesla products are cars for people who don't particularly give a shit about cars. I'm not slagging this as a negative thing -- it's a much bigger market than "people who care about cars." I just don't think that establishing themselves as a luxury brand is going to do anything toward the ostensible goal of "winning" against internal combustion."

Have you driven one ?

Every "car guy" (and I mean, deep, deep car guys) that I have talked to that has driven one has walked away starry eyed...

Dramatically lower center or gravity, almost perfect weight distribution, space age shocks and struts that are way ahead of the rest of the auto industry ... there's more there than just a battery and some electric motors...