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Comment by alkonaut | Hacker News Reader

In which culture is this considered the "first day of winter"? English/US? I knew that the mid summer (longest day) was called "the first day of summer" in English and always though it was just an oddity in the language (like inflammable and flammable...)

The reason we celebrate christmas in late december is because old pagan mid-winter festivals used to be around this time. Sure the coldest winter weather is probably a month or so away still, but it's sure closer to the middle of the winter than the start, even if you count temperature and not sunlight?

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The summer solstice marks the beginning of summer astronomically just as the winter solstice marks the beginning of astronomical winter.

Midsummer is celebrated on the longest day in some cultures, on the solstice in others, but does not denote the middle of astronomical summer.

Meteorologic summer and winter currently begin weeks before the solstice. https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/meteorological-versus-astrono... has a discussion on the difference.

That's exactly US/Canada definition. And winter solstice is "midwinter" in many European countries in fact.

So "astronomical summer" oddly starts with the day that the incoming solar energy is highest in the northern hemisphere? Ok, that explains why it's used in English, but really it just uses the same definition! The meteorological calendar just appears to use three months, so that is pretty arbitrary.

The most logical definition of astronomical summer and winter imho would have been winter and summer being the quarter-years centered on the summer and winter solstice respectively. Then the astronomical definitions would have been in line with (non-english) language, i.e. mid winter is the shortest day and mid summer is the longest day.

> Midsummer is celebrated on the longest day in some cultures, on the solstice in others

Aren't those the same thing (maybe give or take a day)? Where I live it's celebrated on a weekend near the solstice, which makes even more sense because alcohol.

> So "astronomical summer" oddly starts with the day that the incoming solar energy is highest in the northern hemisphere?

In a way, but you're looking at the effect, not the cause. The solstice is the day where either day or night is the shortest, which is caused by the earth either being at the aphelion or the perihelion (i.e. nearest or farthest points from the sun).

One could reasonably suspect that the solstice dates better represent a period just before the centre of the season rather than the beginning of it, since seasons take a bit of time to move in (at least up here in Canada). Snow won't stay until the ground has cooled enough, for example.

Aphelion and perihelion do not have anything to do with the solstices. They are currently coincidentally 2 weeks apart, but will be months apart in several thousand years.

http://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/perihelion-aphelion-sol...

Agreed, I've always thought of Winter as December, January, February. In fact I can't think I've ever had a discussion with anybody who seriously considered 21st as start of Winter, or late June as beginning of Summer. Seems like common sense.

Months are an arbitrary human invention which could be moved, while the solstice is fact.

What does that comment have to do with the discussion? The discussion is basically some say the season starts on the solstice, when actually the season appears to start several weeks prior. I've always wondered why the months are more in line with the solstices. But really the fact is the solstices are closer to the middle of the season than the beginning.

A few people were complaining that they land on the 21st... well it isn't hard to imagine moving over a week.

The seasons tend to run a month or two behind each solstice because of the great specific heat of water and proximity to the ocean, which I've described in other threads.

Surprisingly in Canada! Despite the fact than _normally_ in many places there is some/lof of snow by the first week of December Canadians keep insisting: nooooo - winter starts 21st December! Same oddity for summer.

So in a lot (most by area?) of Canada, people have been up to their arses in snow for a month, when they insist winter starts? Hilarious :)

I've always thought this was an (odd) US thing. I grew up in the UK and I never heard of "summer beginning on the solstice" until I moved to the US. Same for the winter solstice. I was always told in school that Christmas is an ancient midwinter festival -- the time when you expect to survive through the winter with the remaining food stores, since the days are lengthening.

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