Hacker News Reader

Comment by saurik | Hacker News Reader

It is frustrating (and to my eyes highly suspicious) that the TSA announced this when it did, when a lot of people are paying less attention and doing less reporting as so much of the country is shut down for the holidays :/. Here is the context you may have missed.

"TSA can now force you to go through body scanners [pdf]" (166 comments)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10779589

"TSA Sued Over New Policy to Refuse Opt-Outs" (77 comments)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10788826

"TSA Announces It Will Decide Who Goes Through the Body Scanner, Thank You" (4 comments)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10782118

View on HN

Stand up for yourself. If you're fine with the pat down but not the body scanner and you're refused, turn around and go home.

FWIW, I absolutely intend to do this, and in the process ask for the name of the officer who refused me and that of the manager on shift. This means that if I hear that this is remotely likely to really happen, when I take flights I will need to leave a day earlier so I can "try again". I am seriously at the point where I am thinking of traveling to the one important conference outside of California that I speak at every year by car, which will be a 34 hour round trip to Colorado. The thing is: I don't think the TSA cares that I do any of this (they certainly don't care that I drive so many places, as they don't even know, but I also think the only way they care about me opting out is it makes their process slightly less efficient, so they turn to more invasive techniques and announce policy changes that further impose), so it doesn't quite feel like "standing up for my rights" as much as "taking it in the ass" :/.

I think they'd only care if they were hit with a lawsuit; which I would strongly encourage you to file if this happens. (http://professional-troublemaker.com/ might be able to help.)

I rarely travel alone; it's usually with a wife, and soon it'll be with a wife and kid, so I'm not sure we'll get the option to just say no :/

With kids (6 and under so far), my wife and I are always offered the metal detector without asking.

If you're fine with the pat down but not the body scanner and you're refused, turn around and go home.

Or, say, turn around and stay where you are instead of going home.

I do get the pat down pretty regularly, but I can't say for certain that I'd cancel an entire flight (and take the hit to either my professional reputation (outbound) or delay getting home to my family (return)) to stand up for this. That's not even considering the financial hit - I doubt the airlines would be sympathetic and waive the $100+ rebooking fee they've started charging.

I get the principled stand you're trying to make, but there's quite a few gray areas here.

edit: balancing parentheses, and context

I once made an (extremely benign, I swear) comment, directed at a friend of mine, about a situation I had just seen where a man who paid for pre-check was not being provided with any special line access. My friend and I then, as I always do and directed him to do, opted out. I swear a TSA employee overheard the comment and we were "punished" for the entire thing: I have never experienced such a thorough and invasive interrogation, even going through customs.

We were each assigned, simultaneously, two employees (so four people, total): one to do a pat down and the other to just stare at us and lord over our stuff. We were then asked a barrage of questions about who we were, why we were in the area, who the other person was... great questions that were absolutely hilarious given my job and the two of us being a tiny tech company ("what is his job title?" "oh man, what does he call himself? I think it is Vice President of Business Development or something like that?").

I was asked about how I felt standing in line and then the interrogator used my answer (which I will state was extremely deferent; I actually can tell back most of the interaction pretty accurately, but I will save you that version of this ;P) to kind of chastise me (we were late for our flight, by the way, and knew we had no way of getting to it in time, but simply did not care as we had nowhere to be in life for days and we both seasoned and crazy travelers, so I wasn't at all rushed or bothered). I hate these people. I hate them so very very bad.

Ok, but so: in my experiences with them I think you will just fail. The TSA agent will be quite happy to have you sit there until you miss your flight, and they will probably love telling other TSA employees stories about the asshole in line who thought they would stand up and fight but who got no sympathy from anyone in the command hierarchy and got to sit there "as I smiled at them and shook my finger" as their flight took off :/. Or maybe I don't know what your goal is with "turn around and stay where you are" (actually, after typing all of this, I am wondering if your point was that you might get stranded when you are out and about?).

Yes, my particular comment was that I don't have a choice to turn around and leave if I'm denied a pat-down whilst opting out on the return leg of my flight. It was a kind of sarcastic response to my comment parent. Sarcasm doesn't translate all that well in plain text and nested comment threads.

TSA agents run the gamut from fascist jerkwads to rando people working a crappy, thankless job. I'm sorry you got treated badly - I've also had bad experiences going through opt-outs.

Next time, try this: "I will not answer questions without an attorney, why are you impeding my Constitutional right to travel?"

To which they will likely retort with the part of their script dealing with Constitution-free zones in airports and near the borders.

As I've said elsewhere in this discussion: You can't win the war by losing battles on the ground. You have to take the fight to the top. If you want change, you have to approach it politically, as disgusting as that concept is. Unfortunately, I fear it will take an entire new generation of Congress to effect that change, and with no term limits that will never happen.

That's what I would do, stay there. I wouldn't be a dick about it though, I'd simply explain that I don't mind being pat down, but don't want to be scanned for personal reasons. If it was obvious they were going to make an issue out of it, then that's when I'd calmly turn on the Periscope app and notify them I was streaming live video and audio, then sit down and see how it plays out.

I can't see how anyone could reasonably go home. Even going home from a planned bus journey would be annoying.

I don't think it's that easy. I don't fly much but seem to recall that once you enter the screening area you can't just turn around and walk out.

(Not directed to you) but how pathetic has this nation become. When I became naturalized, I didn't do it for the $. They sold me a an apparently fake bill of goods, asserted that I have certain 'inalienable' rights. To see an entire nation subject themselves to being treated like cattle ... what a sad spectacle.

Easier said than done if it happens to you while you're about to board your return flight home!

Reply on news.ycombinator.com