Comment by mahranch | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mahranch | Hacker News Reader

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Not OP, but "capitalism" in China isn't like it is in the west. The government literally runs everything, and can demand literally anything they want from companies. If China's government wanted Lenavo to start making blow up dolls, that's exactly what they would do. China's government has absolute authority and total control. People like to compare the U.S government to China's, but these people are fedora wearing neckbeards who almost never leave their parents basement. As someone who has lived in China for a brief stint, expecting any device built, designed and manufactured in China not to have some sort of back door is like expecting the U.S not to spy. At this stage in the game, it's understood and expected.

If they're requiring backdoors on technology imported into the country (source: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/05/obama_criticises_chi... ), why wouldn't they require them on their own technology that they build themselves? It doesn't make sense from a purely logical standpoint. Of course they're not going to come out and admit it, but we're also starting to see evidence of it:

Example 1: http://www.zdnet.com/article/former-pentagon-analyst-china-h...

Example 2: http://www.geek.com/chips/spy-agencies-shun-lenovo-finding-b...

Example 3: http://www.computerworld.com/article/2860742/chinese-android...

Is it really so hard to believe? Especially when the indirect evidence and logic is so overwhelming? I'm no tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy nut, but come on here... It's China.

>Not OP, but "capitalism" in China isn't like it is in the west. The government literally runs everything, and can demand literally anything they want from companies.

Well, in China the government controls the companies, in the west the companies control the government. Sort of the same end result, with the two being in bed with each other.

>Is it really so hard to believe? Especially when the indirect evidence and logic is so overwhelming?

Well, haven't seen anything "overwhelming" in the list. E.g. the Chinese government had Huawei and ZTE add backdoors to their stuff. But we know that Cisco has done the same in the west -- and the government asked other companies to do the same thing, pressuring Apple etc. So isn't "overwhelming" a kind of a double standard?

> Sort of the same end result, with the two being in bed with each other.

No, not really the same at all. When the companies have all the political power, they do what's best for their shareholders - their bottom line. Whatever helps them acquire more profit and revenue. Here, it's all about the money.

When the government controls the companies (As it is in China), the government does what's best for the people in power (the government). And that usually means doing whatever helps them hold onto or increase their power by way of strict authoritarian rules & laws, censorship and all the indirectly related things that go along with it.

Their goal is to keep the population under control because that means they get to stay in power. China's biggest fear is a revolution or an uprising which is why they're so strict when it comes to public demonstrations, censoring things like Tienanmen square, and cracking brutally hard on rights activists and the leaders of these "change-bringers" (Source: http://world.time.com/2011/02/26/chinas-fear-of-a-jasmine-re...). The last and absolute worst thing that could happen to China is a revolution. They will commit atrocities like you can't even begin to imagine to keep that from happening.

In the west, you don't have to worry about that. Why? Because it's bad for business. Not good for profits and not good for revenue. The best environment for capitalism and for businesses to make the most amount of money is one of peace (Source: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/jan/22/iraq.economy)

>No, not really the same at all. When the companies have all the political power, they do what's best for their shareholders - their bottom line. Whatever helps them acquire more profit and revenue. Here, it's all about the money. When the government controls the companies (As it is in China), the government does what's best for the people in power (the government).

And hopefully, in the latter case, the people. Because governments, even if not democratic (and I'd wouldn't call that 2-party/donations/gerrymandering system democratic either) have an interested in pleasing the population (e.g. out of fear of revolt etc). Whereas companies mostly in maximizing profit.

>The last and absolute worst thing that could happen to China is a revolution. They will commit atrocities like you can't even begin to imagine to keep that from happening.

Well, the absolute worst thing that could happen to China could actually BE a revolution. It's a huge ancient country, and it has always had its ways of government and its tradition of mandarins/confucianism etc.

Besides, places like Libya and Iraq, where "democracy was restored" are hardly success stories for toppling a stable system of power. China could well become a hell-hole, and have massacres that rival the ones in the "cultural revolution", EVEN if they manage to get rid of the ruling party easily -- the fight for the succeeding situation could make the US Civil War look like a Disney movie.

> expecting any device built, designed and manufactured in China not to have some sort of back door

But then, all laptops and tablets are manufactured in China, right? (even Dell outsources the parts to Chinese companies like FoxConn and sometimes, the assembling too). So, you mean to say each and every Dell laptop has some sort of back door?

> But then, all laptops and tablets are manufactured in China, right?

Nope, we're not (mostly) talking about devices that are just assembled there, but China's own brands (the ones that are designed in China). I'm sure companies like Samsung have strict controls in place to make sure China isn't messing with their products.

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