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slightly off-topic: there's plenty of new Java frameworks out there that can be pretty productive and "fun" - mostly the Sinatra-style ones (Spark, etc) and stuff like Activejdbc for ORM. Plus, there's fun languages on the JVM that allow for less verbose code without going dynamic - eg Kotlin or Scala.

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This probably sounds pretty stupid, but once Oracle (or was it Sun?) started bundling other software in the installer that I don't want, I was done with that language. Then Oracle started claiming the Java library API was their IP and protected by copyright. Ugh. I'm probably not going to go back to Java again.

Yes it does sound stupid.

1. Server-side uses Linux, installation through command-line

2. Java standard library API owns by Oracle? fine by 99% of the companies out there. I'm just using those libraries.

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