Comment by gambiting | Hacker News Reader

Comment by gambiting | Hacker News Reader

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In comparison to where I'm from(Poland), UK banks seem to be stuck in middle ages and it's infuriating.

- cannot get two separate cards for the same account(unless it's a joint account). Why would I want to? I'll explain in a second. In Poland I have a visa debit + mastercard debit cards for the same account.

- the cards have a limit of 300 pounds for ATM withdrawals. There is not way to change that limit, I've asked at a few banks and that's just what it is, even in an emergency. With my Polish bank, I can log in online and change it on their website - I can set it to any amount, 100k a day if I want to. I used my Polish card to withdraw few thousand pounds out of an ATM in UK and it worked fine(the ATM itself had a limit of 400 pounds per transaction but I just used it a few times and it worked fine). I can also set a separate limit for internet transactions - which is why I have two cards. One card that I carry with me all the time but which has 0 limit on internet transactions, and another card which always stays at home but which has 0 limit on ATM and over the counter transactions. If someone steals the card that is on me they can't use it on the internet, and if someone steals the card at home they can't use it to withdraw cash or to pay for stuff.

- No ability to see pending transactions online on my debit cards until they clear. This one is absolutely crazy to me. How can I know if someone hasn't stolen my money if I can't see pending transactions? The only way to do that is to call the bank. As far as I know, only lloyds shows pending transactions online, Barclays had it as a "suggestion" for ages now.

- Credit cards. In Poland, I apply for a certain limit when applying for a card and I either get it or I don't. In UK, you apply for a card, have to sign all the documents for the card, and only after the card arrives I can see what sort of limit was given me. If I don't like it, there's nothing I can do - well, I could ring the bank and ask, but they don't have to increase it. I could close the account and apply somewhere else but that negatively impacts my credit score, what a nightmare.

- can't change the pin for my card online.

- most UK banks won't send any of my documents to a foreign address even if I ask for "security reasons" but my Polish banks sends all theirs to my UK address no problem.

"the cards have a limit of 300 pounds for ATM withdrawals"

Some banks have slightly higher limits, I've seen up to £500 but I have not seen any that allow you to set an arbitrary limit.

"only after the card arrives I can see what sort of limit was given"

It is quite common to request a credit limit when applying for a credit card and have it accepted or declined, but I guess different banks do things differently.

I don't know if banks work differently in Poland, but in the UK if I see a fraudulent transaction on any of my cards (debit or credit) it will be refunded, except where I disclosed my PIN.

That seems really terrible. It basically gets banks or credit companies off the hook for fraud. It presumes Chip and PIN is secure (it's not, fraud levels dropped momentarily when it was debuted, but are high as ever now) but ends up being nothing but a way to transfer fraud liability to the consumer - who has absolutely no power to improve the system to reduce fraud and can't really be said to be to 'blame' for the fraud at all in the first place. Build a flawed system by cutting corners, but get the marketing spot on, and get yourself off the hook for fraud AND remove all pressure for repairing the system you cheaped out on in the first place? Wow.

> most UK banks won't send any of my documents to a foreign address

Try Barclays, they send me documents to Lithuania (hi from across the border!).

> - can't change the pin for my card online.

I can't see a way for a chip card's PIN to be updated online, without physical access to the card.

Well, I can change the pin for my Polish cards on my bank's online page, so I guess the pin must be validated with the bank's servers before allowing any transaction.

There's a screenshot of what it looks like on the website:

http://i.imgur.com/p19315R.png

The third button from the top is "change pin"

Its not actually possible for this to work with a 'chip' card.

If your polish card has a chip and you change the pin online, there is a slight chance the change wont register. Many ATMs don't send a request to check the pin/they check the pin stored on the chip.

This is why you have to be physically present at an ATM to change the pin.

So if you change the pin, and say go out of Poland and use it somewhere else, without using it in Poland first, it would say the PIN is incorrect.

This risk might be why it is not readily available with UK banks.

Well, I know that it definitely, absolutely works while abroad. How do I know? Because the cards from that bank don't arrive with a pin. You don't get two envelopes, one with the card another with a pin - it's just the card, then you have to go online, log in, activate the card and set the pin. I've had new cards delivered to my UK address, activated them online and they worked in the UK without any problem(without ever being used in Poland first). So maybe there is something on the chip, some variable saying "always check the pin with server"?

It isn't, but at least for a long time that wasn't an issue. Most terminals were set to online mode, so pin wasn't verified by card but by bank. On the other hand the ones in UK mostly work in offline mode which requires the PIN to be verified by card. Not a great thing to discover abroad that your card chip doesn't contain any PIN at all. Good thing is that it can be placed/updated on card by simply using ATM.

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