Ask HN: Do you use an alternative keyboard layout like Dvorak? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Do you use an alternative keyboard layout like Dvorak?

8 pointscranium7 comments

I tried to switch to Dvorak and as an Emacs/Evil user I was really frustrated to have "easy" shortcuts like M-x, $, C-c C-f suddenly becoming cumbersome to perform (note that copy/cut/paste in everyday programs also became unwieldy).

How did you manage to get past that stage of "omg-why-is-everything-so-unfitting"?

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That never became a problem for me. The worst was the up/down left/right keys in vim, but you just get used to the new ones. You're already changing the complete layout, which has totally messed up everything you type. I went through a solid month at least where I couldn't type much in dvorak or qwerty. Losing focus for a split second meant splatting gibberish to the screen or causing untold havoc in vim. It's been probably ten years since I learned it, and I still occasionally forget which layout I'm typing in. What's another mental hit for easy shortcuts on top of that? If it's a big enough problem, update your program's keyboard layout to bring back those easy shortcuts.

I added dvorak as a regularly-used keyboard layout because of cramping issues while typing. Those went away immediately and never came back, so it was a win for me.

Did you not remap vim nav keys to just be the same home row spots?

I don't think my brain could handle them moving.

I didn't bother. Once you're used to them, they don't really get in the way. I usually change key settings for games that use aswd to move around, since that's more of a pain.

Take a look at Programmer's Dvorak[1], for a more developer friendly version of dvorak.

Other than that, replacing old muscle memories takes some time and practice. It took me a full two weeks of half-day practice to type at an acceptable speed with the new layout.

I'm using a mac, and I mapped the caps lock key to ctrl, which is in a more natural position to press with my left pinky.

As my both hands are always on home row when I'm typing, M-x, C-c, C-w, navigation etc. all comes naturally now. I've been using programmer's dvorak for 6 or so years.

If I need to do copy-paste etc. with one hand (when using mouse), I switch back to Qwerty with one quick keyboard shortcut (cmd+shift+a for me), than switch back to dvorak when I'm done.

[1]: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

For about 21 years I was a qwerty guy, doing a lot of COBOL (a verbose, English-like language that facilitates fast typing). It's been fourteen years since I've switched to Dvorak. It was worth it, but it did experience a full month before exceeding my 80+ wpm qwerty speed. (The first couple of weeks would probably have been much easier if I had used a keyboard overlay or use a keyboard labeled as Dvorak instead of qwerty.)

Before switching, I wondered how it would affect my ability to use qwerty. Happily, I never lost my ability to be proficient on small keyboards (phone, labelmazer, etc.) that are too small for ten-fingered touch typing. If you switch, you will be able to text away using qwerty without any trouble.

But when it comes to touch typing, can you full-on switch back and forth between qwerty and Dvorak without difficulty? I can't really give you a field-tested answer to this question. I make it a point not to touch-type on full-sized qwerty keyboards--I don't want to risk slowing down on Dvorak. However, on the rare occasions when I need to go qwerty on a full-sized keyboard, I get the sense that switching back to qwerty would be fairly easy. When I use a qwerty keyboard I'm a little awkward--I have to think about where the letters are, but I've "still got it". I get the sense that I'd be back in fine qwerty form if I continued on for a few minutes. But . . . why would I want to go back? Dvorak just flows out of your fingers, and now qwerty just seems like something from the Ministry of Silly Typing. Unless you are typing the word "qwerty" over and over again, Dvorak is the way to go.

Also, a word on control-key combinations aren't really that big of a deal. But . . . OS X gives you the option of retaining the qwerty layout for control-key combinations if you don't want to go whole-hog.

And vim? Well, h/j/k/l still move the cursor the same way, but obviously the actual keys for h/j/k/l will no longer be adjacent to each other. Using these keys to move the cursor won't be as intuitive, but can it be said that vim users are prone to whimpering about things not being idiot-proof?

Along the same vein, video/audio editing programs tend to assume a qwerty layout is being used; if the editing app you use allows you to control the playhead with "letters", expect their position to change and be non-adjacent.

I don't think there's an easy way to do it, you've just got to push through the awkwardness.

I have one piece of advice. Change the keyboard layout on your phone to whatever you're learning (Colemak in my case). I memorised the layout pretty quickly thanks to that. (Building up the muscle memory is another story.)

I've found that Colemak avoids this problem for the most part, as unlike Dvorak, most of the bottom row of QWERTY is left intact: http://colemak.com/

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