Nuclear fusion device's first test with hydrogen declared a success
cbc.ca
cbc.ca
What's special about the Wendelstein 7-X? I know stellarators as a concept aren't new. Is this a significant result, or is it just a handy opportunity for a media event?
stellerator: harder to build, easier to run (and more efficient)
tokamak: easier to build, harder to run (and less efficient)
Due to the first property, there are more tokamaks around and showing basic functionality for any stellerator is a good/important step.
Edit (relevant quote from the article): """Although there are about a dozen stellarator experiments around the world, including in the U.S., Japan, Australia and Europe, scientists say the Greifswald device is the first to match the performance of tokamaks."""
> tokamak: easier to build, harder to run (and less efficient)
Too simplistic view... Read more about how works each design (wikipedia).
The number of functional stellarators is rather limited, so getting it built is a success in itself. W7-X will be the largest of the bunch and is supposed to sustain plasma for up to 30min (for comparison, the record for tokamaks is 6.5min, and ITER will only add a minute or two to that).
In magnetic confinement fusion there is a big problem of confinement stability. You are trying to confine a plasma, which is electrically charged and thus an electrical conductor. Electric current generates a magnetic field. This is actually made use of in tokamak designs, which are the most straightforward magnetic confinement systems. However, tokamaks suffer from a fundamental flaw, that plasma current produces a feedback instability loop making it very challenging to attain plasma confinement longer than a few seconds or minutes. That's problematic because the shorter lived the fusion plasma is the more the initial (externally produced) heat as a proportion of the total cumulative heat of the plasma over its lifetime adds up. Short lived plasmas don't spend very long producing fusion heat to "pay back" the energy used to heat up the plasma to fusion conditions to start with.
A stellarator is basically a way to twist the magnetic fields around the fusion plasma tube in such a way so that the trajectories of ions in the plasma will stay inside the confinement volume, without requiring any current in the plasma. This makes the system potentially much more stable but at the cost of a very much more complex arrangement of magnets. The longer the plasma can be confined the longer fusion reactions can be sustained, making it easier to generate more power than was put in to raise the plasma to fusion suitable conditions (high density, high temperature).
Wrong! The most straightforward magnetic confinement systems are :
- Simple toroid design -> Have some flaws that make useless and Stellerator is a evolution of the idea, fixing it with twisted magnetic fields.
- Magnetic mirrors -> Two simple coils separated, so the combination of the shape and the more dense magnetic field on the center of the coils, works like a mirror for charged particles.
Also, at nearly the same time (around 1955) that the Russinas was begin to experiment with the Tokamak design, the British was experimenting wit the "ZETA", where the contaiment magnetic field comes ONLY from a current on the plasma.
The concept is not new, they're just hideously complicated to build. It's a relatively new development that it's possible to model the shape of the magnetic fields and magnets required to keep the plasma. So it's a significant achievement to build one and prove that you can run it while containing the plasma. Yesterdays event is one step on that path.
Yesterday's event was not much about science, but rather about engineering. Building that machine was a gigantic work.
Which Wendelstein can't do – for that, you'll need much more radioactive reactions (involving tritium), and Wendelstein isn't (and can't be) sufficiently shielded for those.
Wendelstein is a research reactor: It's covered in sensors in and out, and it can be easily disassembled or opened up for repairs and modifications, which you generally don't want to do if everything's covered in radiation activated materials.
If Wendelstein holds up to its plans, derivative designs can be used to build net-positive reactors involving tritium (and lots of shielding).
> Yesterday's event was not much about science, but rather about engineering. Building that machine was a gigantic work.
Indeed. Most of its design was finalized in the 80s and the project took 25 years to just get the funding, build the (first of a kind) components and build a working reactor out of them.
So in light of that, how long we we have ,assuming all goes well, before a working reactor ?
Once it's proven that you can make money with fusion (and Wendelstein is our best bet), all hell will break loose.
Could be months, years, or even decades.
Realistically, there has been much more progress recently including several SV style startups with massive funding trying to get things to work. It probably is within 50 years this time with the amount of real money and research going into it.
SO yes, they kept it on for less then a second, nothing exploded and future looks quite brigth i would say
By the way, do you know what is the estimated gain factor of W7X, even if < 1 ? I could not find that info on the web.
The problem with fusion is that they are notoriously hard to achieve, so basically they are always in the brink of fizzling out.
Yes. The reason more humans can live on the planet than the planet could "naturally" sustain, is that they employ outside energy to produce food, shelter, and raw materials.
So more energy, we can support more humans, or existing humans with a higher standard of living.
Three things that you might worry about "go away" with practical fusion energy:
1) Hunger
2) Anthropogenic Global Warming
3) Fresh water supplies
They go away because high energy farming techniques become much more cost effective, fusion power contributes no CO2 and can actually extract CO2 from the atomosphere for commerial use, and the water in the oceans can be desalinated on demand.
It also eliminates many things that cause human suffering, coal mining, oil drilling, fuel transport (oil and coal and gas), smog (electric cars are more cost effective, no more coal fired power plants), and warmth/cooling (if your electricity is cheap enough, everyone can have air conditioning or heat to counteract outside temperatures).
So yes, a practical fusion system will change every aspect of the world.
To clarify: maybe in a more rational, informed society, where we could actually keep building and rebuilding newer generations of fission reactors, then maybe it wouldn't matter as much. We'd have safe reactors and a very small amount of waste products, at a lower residual radiation level.
We don't have any of these things though. In this scenario, then it matters a whole lot. Fusion (I refuse to use the word 'nuclear' here) reactors do not meltdown(nor do the newest fission designs). They generate very little radiation, if any. They have no waste products.
Basically, they remove the "NOT IN MY BACKYARD" variable from the equation. And weaponizing concerns for some countries. And, if they ever work, should generate outstanding amounts of power for their size. Using small amounts of fuel that we don't expect to run out at any non-geologic time scale.
It's easier to sell to the public. "look, it's clean, it's natural, it's just a tiny sun".
So yeah, big deal.
> German Chancellor Angela Merkel [..] who holds
> a doctorate in physics, personally pressed the button
> at Wednesday's launch of an experiment they hope
> will advance the quest for nuclear fusion, considered
> a clean and safe form of nuclear power.We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11032716 and marked it off-topic.
I just stated a fact here. :\
"She's physicist" ... "She is head of the CDU" ... the end.
Yes I saw what it brought here and after a few posts, I was like "Oh wait, this is an Internet Argument... better don't look at it anymore" but it was already too late.
Well, I'm sorry.
Oh yes. I didn't mean it literally. It's just that starting a flamewar on purpose is one thing, and accidentally setting one off is another, but both are bad.
I'm sorry I came down on you that hard. Such flamewars are awful but they're also very much a community creation, which is why they're hard to prevent.
Seems like religion is a heated topic, even here.
Next time I know better :)
They do seem conservative by comparison to their main opponent party, the SPD, which has Marxist roots, but compared to say US politics, they would be considered moderates. In that sense, it's disingenuous to take them out of the German political spectrum (which is much more moderate than the US), and judge them by name alone.
She's certainly not a bible thumping Christian denying global warming. [0]
[0][http://www.environmental-watch.com/profiles/angela-merkel/]
Except if those humans are gay, or Turkish, or Muslim...
One issue I can think of is same-sex marriage, but there's laws enabling same-sex couples to get into a "Lebenspartnerschaft", which is functionally equivalent to a marriage. There is some areas where things differ, like certain clauses in the explosive ordinance regulations, criminal rehabilitation law and census regulations. Granted, it doesn't say marriage, but it's close.
Regarding the legal treatment of Muslims in Germany, there seems to be two issues. One being head-scarves, the other circumcision. On the former, the German constitutional court ruled in January 2015 that a general ban in schools is unconstitutional. The latter, the state court in Cologne ruled as grievous harm, but this was later overturned by a law passed by the Bundestag.
Really, the spirit of the formulation the CDU used does not specify which God. Even taking it in bad faith, one has to remember that Islam and Christianity are both abrahamic religions, so they share the same god, which makes it doubly moot.
There are legitimate issues to be talked about in this context, from integration of immigrants to a growing anti-islamic sentiment in Germany and the rest of Europe.
Granted, the percentage of people in the US that would agree with all of the above is much higher than in Europe, but it's not like conservative Protestantism (or Roman Catholicism for that matter) doesn't exist there.
q.e.d.
> compared to say US politics, they would be considered moderates
compared to the US politics, probably all german parties are considered moderates
Till the AfD showed up, CDU/CSU were the most conservative parties (besides some really small ones that never got over 5% of the votes) in Germany.
> She's certainly not a bible thumping Christian denying global warming
That's true, but there don't seem to be much countries in the world, besides the US, where you could get voters which such comments...
My point was just, that the parent poster quoted this text, that made the impression Germany is so advanced that we even have a physicist as Chancellor, while Merkel in fact is a member of a christian party.
Essentially, the interviewer asked her what she liked most about her job as Chancellor, to which she replied "I like that there's interesting new problems every day", which her critics jumped on almost immediately.
Now the thing is, she almost certainly meant that in the way a scientist talks about "problems", but it wasn't interpreted that way by political commentators.
I'm honestly not too concerned about there being a CDU instead of there being just a DU, as long as they're not pushing the Christian angle too strongly. As long as their policy is sound, they could be the Pastafari Democratic Union for all I care. Maybe the Pirate Party will step up to that role, becoming the PPP, which would net them my vote.
Christians can't be physicists? Someone tell Newton, Leibniz, Faraday, Maxwell, Kelvin...
> q.e.d.
Why would you use q.e.d. with out a reference. I know I am strange in that I studied Greek and know a decent amount of Latin but how were you using q.e.d.?
Also can we please not lump ALL Christians into the same boat it feels kind of like calling all Muslims terrorist. For Global warming the Bible is very clear that we are to protect the Earth which many Bible Global Warming protesters claim to upheld.
The claim was that the CDU is somehow christian. The argument against that was that they aren't actually christian, but that they rather get inspiration for their politics from christian theology.
Now, if your opponent presents an argument for your position as if it were for their own, there isn't really any need to restate that argument, you can simply point out that your position has been demonstrated.
> Also can we please not lump ALL Christians into the same boat it feels kind of like calling all Muslims terrorist. For Global warming the Bible is very clear that we are to protect the Earth which many Bible Global Warming protesters claim to upheld.
The problem with christianity (or any religion, for that matter) is that it tends to encourage people to believe things for bad reasons. Now, there might be christians who don't, but that doesn't change that a vast majority of them do. Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable to lump them all together, at least in this regard, when making general statements. The problem is not whether some christians believe that the bible clearly tells them to protect the earth (while other christians ironically equally fervently believe that the bible clearly tells them that they don't need to do anything because god will take care of it), it's that they think that the bible telling them something is a good reason to act accordingly. That is an irresponsible method for trying to obtain knowledge, and it's outright dangerous when other people are affected by the results.
If I feed a starving child because my horoscope told me that I should, then the fact that feeding a starving child is good does not change the fact that the reason why I do it is still bad, and that acting according to astrological advice is not a reliable way to do good, and might well lead to bad consequences in other cases.
>The problem with christianity (or any religion, for that matter) is that it tends to encourage people to believe things for bad reasons.
You have a strong bias against religion without data. To me it just seems that you really don't care about religion and your reflecting your negative feelings on a subject and building a straw-man out of it. The vast majority of the world and almost every person of historical significance were religious. This idea that religious people are lesser and clearly not enlightened isn't very different then racism.
> bible clearly tells them that they don't need to do anything because god will take care of it.
There is no reference in the Bible for that and it isn't the basis of people's belief why they are against Global Warming (It is based on Conservative Pro-Business politics and not religion (In the US that is they identify as Republicans as they believe all good God Fearing Christians belong :( ) http://www.ibtimes.com/what-do-christians-have-against-clima...
I didn't mean anything by it, that comment wasn't mine. But the comment used it exactly as you defined it: 50CNT tried to show that the CDU is not christian by mentioning that they follow christian doctrine. Given that that is actually an argument for the position that the CDU is in fact christian, there is no need to provide any further arguments, k__ simply concluded: QED.
> You have a strong bias against religion without data.
How do you know what data I have?
> To me it just seems that you really don't care about religion and your reflecting your negative feelings on a subject and building a straw-man out of it.
Well, I can assure you that you are mistaken.
> The vast majority of the world and almost every person of historical significance were religious.
Your point being?
> This idea that religious people are lesser and clearly not enlightened isn't very different then racism.
Could you please show where I made any such claim? Or was that an attempt to build a strawman argument?
> There is no reference in the Bible for that and it isn't the basis of people's belief why they are against Global Warming (It is based on Conservative Pro-Business politics and not religion (In the US that is they identify as Republicans as they believe all good God Fearing Christians belong :( ) http://www.ibtimes.com/what-do-christians-have-against-clima....
You missed the point: I don't care what the bible says on the topic (nor what specifically you think it says), but I notice that others care and try to justify their actions on that basis, which is irresponsible, as nobody has demonstrated that that is a way to obtain reliable knowledge about the world (plus there are plenty of examples to the contrary). That people claim equally loudly completely contradictory conclusions from their respective reading of the bible just is further evidence that it might not be that reliable a source of information.
> How do you know what data I have?
The old academic in me is you don't have any unless you show some.
> I don't care what the bible says on the topic (nor what specifically you think it says), but I notice that ...
You are claiming purposeful ignorance and insight on the same subject. If you don't care and then go one to make an argument which you have claimed no real knowledge about. Just don't get involved in discussions when you don't care about the data.
> That people claim equally loudly completely contradictory conclusions from their respective reading of the bible just is further evidence that it might not be that reliable a source of information.
Because people DON'T read the data and refuse to look at it. Just as frustrating is to see Excel spreadsheets of data from an original data set with no idea how they got to their conclusion. You are in one sentence just dismissed 90%+ of knowledge. Statistics, Science, all soft sciences etc.... And in fact this all comes back to data. Look at the data or walk away but don't argue from a point of ignorance and base it on personal experiences, belief systems, and emotions.
Hope you have a good day and know I am not trying to get you to believe what I do but I am trying to encourage you to look at the way you are presenting yourself. I do believe you are trying to communicate A but you are being perceived to hold to B.
First: "not caring" in this context means that I don't consider the content of the bible to be relevant to this argument, which is not to be confused with lack of knowledge, aka ignorance.
Second: I very much care about the data. Now, do you have any data for me to look at?
Now, to avoid any confusion, let me re-state my claim: The bible has not been demonstrated to be a reliable source of knowledge about the world. Therefore, it's irresponsible to make decisions about your or other people's lives based on information from the bible.
If you want information on historical facts and academic inaccurate information and myths by lazy academics dipping their toes in a discipline they don't know about I would love to. I have a ton of those stories. The academic discipline of a Biblical Scholar (I am more of Theology trained aka more history facts and figures and philosophy based) I can lay out a decent academic data.
Just so we are clear this would be non-proselytizing and more of an fact finding from academia. It really is an awesome study and many academics and PhD of the Bible are not even Christians but are fascinated by the historical data and the academic discipline.
Do you think that there is anything wrong with that?
> Just so we are clear this would be non-proselytizing and more of an fact finding from academia. It really is an awesome study and many academics and PhD of the Bible are not even Christians but are fascinated by the historical data and the academic discipline.
Now, if you actually could demonstrate the reliability of the bible as a source for knowledge about the world, I certainly would be extremely interested.
The problem is that you are exhibiting many of the common signs that usually indicate someone lacks understanding of the philosophy of science and more generally of epistemology, so it's extremely likely that you are going to trot out the same old arguments that I have heard endless times, and that have been refuted over and over. So, my suggestion would be: Go, get yourself a few books that explain that stuff, and learn what the arguments of the "other side" actually are, that should make for a far more productive conversation. If you like watching videos, this might also be a good place to start: https://www.youtube.com/user/SansDeity/videos - in particular: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAQFYgyEACI , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwG7LJTTZFc , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNIfzlzmJ8Y
Also: Yes, the bible certainly is an important book to study due to its influence on society, and it (or rather, the many versions of it) certainly has/have a history that can give many interesting insights. All I am disagreeing with is that it provides reliable knowledge about the world that is in any way fundamentally different from any other (ancient) book. And just as one can study the iliad without believing that Zeus actually existed, it's perfectly reasonable to study the bible without being a christian, of course.
>...acting according to astrological advice is not a reliable way to do good, and might well lead to bad consequences in other cases.
Something needs to inform your knowledge of what is 'good' and what is 'bad'. Why do you take feeding a starving child as a good? It's likely that you've internalized a morality and ethics from your culture that tells you so. So what makes the externalized (religion) more wrong than the internalized (culture)?
Culture, if anything, is a shortcut for learning about ethical behaviour from others, just as school is a shortcut for learning about, I dunno, the mechanics of rigid bodies from others, but whether what we learn from either of those sources is (tentatively) correct can be determined only by observation of reality/by experiment.
If you think that ethics is something that needs to somehow be provided by someone rather than a property of reality that is to be discovered, that is already a religious presupposition. Sensible ethics are utilitarian/consequentialist: You look at what causes harm and what avoids harm to build an understanding of ethical behaviour. It's not much different from what we do to figure out what is healthy: There is no source of health rules with a book that is not to be questioned, but you look at what causes harm and what avoids harm, and that then is what we label as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
What do you mean by objective in this context and why do you think that this measure has to be objective according to your definition?
> If I feed a starving child because my horoscope told me ...
In our times astrology is nothing more than a fun conversation piece. I do wonder what your definition for "good" and "bad" is.
What's your point?
You have straw-manned my argument quite a bit, but let's ignore that for the moment ...
If, say, electing Donald Trump for president were to lead to world-wide nuclear war, and people were to vote for him, how would it not be irresponsible to let americans vote on that if you had any chance to prevent it? Also, how does fairness get into this? How does the fairness of a decision-making process change anything about the consequences of any given decision and that it is irresponsible to not prevent harm that you easily could prevent.
> In our times astrology is nothing more than a fun conversation piece.
For one, that's not actually true. But more importantly: Why is the same not at least mostly true for christianity, islam, judaism, hinduism, ... ?
> I do wonder what your definition for "good" and "bad" is.
The short version: Good is what reduces harm, bad is what increases harm.
Now, I wonder what your definition is if it doesn't agree with mine, at least roughly.
Well, that's just the problem, isn't it? The Bible is always very clear that I'm right and you're wrong.
The traditionalist horror at postmodernism and poststructuralism is that they give the game away: They admit outright what the religious have always done sub rosa, that the meaning of a text is determined by its interpretive context and therefore all religious interpretations, like all artistic interpretations in general, are equally valid.
I have studied the Bible and other world religions for over a decade in higher education. Have multiple years of Greek and Hebrew education, and includes Aramaic, and Latin. I can tell you MOST people don't really care what the Bible says and most just care of how thy feel and/or think. Most things in history of Christianity have very little to do with what the Bible says. (I was working on a PhD in Historical Theology which is the nerdiest of focuses when it comes to Theology.
If people ever want to have a discussion and are Christians it is hysterical to me to talk scripture with them and realize they will just twist something out of the air and consider themselves proven. In the exact terms of "Global Warming" which I was speaking about there are zero scriptures that supports the idea that it doesn't matter what people do or don't do with global warming but for those working to protect the earth it is in the Bible. So the funny thing is that these Christians are so strongly opposed to the science of Global Warming against the Bible they claim they are fighting scientist for.
I've seen this kind of answer between computer engineering/sciences people as some sort of "you haven't explained anything" response, though in a more thorough reading of OP and response, I can't really say what was the intention. The downvotes on the response would seem to support that interpretation.
As a religious person I would say you are seeing these values as extrinsic, but MOST religious people see religion as intrinsic (AKA essential to who they are). If you reject religion of people you devalue who they are and not some "Hobby." I would warn you that that statement was more hurtful then you meant it to be.
I think my mum (in England) would tell people she's Christian, although only if asked — she'd never mention it in conversation, but if someone on the street is "doing a survey" she'll say Christian. But apart from other peoples' weddings and funerals, she hasn't been to a church service for 20 years. I think she'd be much more offended if someone criticized her hobbies — they're things she chose, religion was chosen for her.
Average Church of England attendance is around 1.5% of the population [1]. Football clubs have higher attendance figures [2] (the lowest on that page is 3% of Manchester's population apparently attends Manchester United games, and Manchester has several major football clubs).
[1] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/07/church-of-engla...
[2] http://www.sportsvibe.co.uk/industry-news/football/attendanc...
From what I saw living there, many Germans don't set foot in a church outside of Christmas and Easter. I sure would like to have federal holidays for all those Catholic saint's days like they do in Bavaria, though...
Sure, they know the correct song and dance, but outside of specific settings it has little influence on behavior.
Granted, they may self identify very strongly as X, but how many people view say speeding in religious terms? Your actively harming the world though increased pollution and directly risking others lives, but meh.
> The vast majority of people are not particularly religious. This includes most members of the major religions.
You just belittled all major religions in two sentences without any data. I can tell that is not your intent and you are expressing an opinion but it is still belittling something without any evidence of your simple conclusion.
https://around.uoregon.edu/content/researcher-religion-influ...
Anyway, you misunderstand what I am saying. Cheating, Murder, Stealing, are often directly referenced in religious terms and so they are influenced by religion. It's behaviors that are not described in religious terms (aka speeding) that have minimal impact.
There are even industry's focused around following the letter of religious 'law' while side stepping the impacts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_on_Shabbat
In other words, religion is generally a 'narrow' change in thought and behavior rather than influencing all actions.
PS: Now, if some religious leader takes up the cause that speeding is meaningful then that's going to have an impact. But, again only because of the direct focus.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2012/0815/Atheism...
The least religious nations, according to the poll, are China (14 percent saying they are religious), Japan (16 percent), Czech Republic (20 percent), Turkey (23 percent), Sweden (29 percent), Vietnam (30 percent), Australia (37 percent),
So, the EU is still fairly religious compared to much of the world.
Though the most religious countries are not really a list you want to join:
Ghana (96 percent of the participants that they are religious), Nigeria (93 percent), Armenia (92 percent), Fiji (92 percent), Macedonia (90 percent), Romania (89 percent), Iraq (88 percent), Kenya (88 percent), Peru (86 percent), and Brazil (85 percent).
She was there as Head of State, starting an important experiment funded by the state and lending importance to this scientific endeavor in this way. Or at least hoping to garner some positiv press for herself, that she is in dire need of.
But being Head of a (by the way just so called) christian party does not tell anything in a very secularized country like German.
That's why I wrote this ;)
Of course the second she used these powers they'd be removed but yeah, it's an interesting framework.
Edit: oops, forgot - she is also the Command in Chief of all armed forces and in theory has complete control of the disposition of forces.
What hasn't happened in a long time is for her to act contrary to Ministers' advice.
It's probably fair to say that there is close to negligible chance that that state of affairs (or Affairs of State if you prefer) will change in the present Queen's lifetime. Charles, however, may make things a little more constitutionally interesting as he has far more activist tendencies.
Not a fan, and do not like that in the Canadian oath you have to pledge to her (a human) instead of something non-human that symbolizes Canada (like the Canadian flag). It is unfortunate that in the oath you have to be subservient to another person - so much for all people created equally.
Sorry for drifting off topic, got carried away. :-)