Judicial combat between a man and a dog in 1361 | Hacker News Reader

Judicial combat between a man and a dog in 1361

thebookofdays.com

113 pointsnetworked28 comments

That never actually happened; it's a legend that was already found in songs from the 1100s. The 1361 or 71 date is from an invented marginal comment in an edition of Montaigne's works: http://gatinais.histoire.pagesperso-orange.fr/Chien_de_Monta...

Judiciary combat probably wasn't that common in the late 1300s, although it still existed.

I would buy a printed book of all these stories. I am also compelled to redesign their website for free.

Count me in as well, it's such a nice feeling to actually find content worth reading these days.

> I am also compelled to redesign their website for free.

I think it's fine the way it is: clean, light and straightforward

Charming, even.

Trial by combat was only abolished in England in 1819, after the much-publicized case of Ashford v Thornton in which the defendant successfully called for it. (No combat took place - the plaintiff withdrew rather than fight the much larger defendant.)

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/343469909058478785/

This is fantastic. We need to do things this way more often.

Oh, I'm reminded of this (the 1st article I've read about this curious oddity that used to be the norm in the past) - http://www.slate.com/articles/life/history/2013/02/medieval_...

How apropos of my username here.

This famous duel subverted the will of the King of France, helping to bring about the end of judicial combat:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/DOTC.htm#.VrZbiHNMHqA

Could not a man with a familiar dog, perhaps a hunting animal, the property of a rival, cause it to rise against a particular person at a signal? I suspect the 'friend' of manufacturing the entire event, being the murderer himself. We have only his word on the history of the dog. He may have assumed its ownership upon the killing of the real owner; he was aware of the curious tradition of combat; he contrived a cute storey of animal loyalty to cover his vile act and misdirect attention onto another for the crime.

Does anyone know: If there are any pictures of "the chimney in the great hall of the chateau of Montargis"?

The the name of the name of the "popular melodrama" that was based on this story?

Making a murderer season 2?

Shouldn't a man with a cudgel be able to beat a dog in a duel?

Depends on the dog. And the man. And the cudgel. Kidding aside, dogs weren't bred to be gentle house pets back then. Think something closer to a domesticated wolf.

> dogs weren't bred to be gentle house pets back then

dogs have been bred for all sorts of purposes since the beginning of dogs.

Bred certainly, but not... teacup poodles, you know? This was probably some "working breed" and it sounds like it was on the large side.

The Pinterest link to the statue submitted earlier (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11049681), if it's supposed to be a depiction, makes the dog look pretty damn big by today's standards. I would not fancy my chances against it with just a cudgel... :)

Dogs are both faster and better armed than men.

However, the man has better reach in this case, and is (probably) trained better than the dog.

It's kind of a toss-up.

Dogs have less fear, because they don't know the inevitable outcome if they lose the fight.

I wouldn't necessarily call that an advantage, or a disadvantage for that matter. The kind of person who is locked up by fear in a fight likely hasn't had enough training or experience to win the fight anyway.

I don't think it's even close. 9 times out of 10, a man with a cudgel should be destroyed by a large dog (especially one much closer to its wolf ancestry).

Even now, watching my very gentle Golden Retriever have an exuberant running fit, it's clear that dogs are much more agile than humans. All it takes is one miss of that cudgel, and teeth are locked in on the human's delicate skin, cutting in with hundreds of pounds of pressure.

But single dog bites are rarely fatal. So you offer the dog your left arm and then cudgel him to death with your right.

If you can stand a lot of pain long enough. If the dog is determined and has jaw muscles and bones enough to crush your arm you might not be able to focus even enough through the pain to hit the dog even once. My gentle mixed breed refuge (who is roughly the same size as the dog depicted for this story) dog uses his back molars through rapidly bite through bone (and he just splits the few big dog Kongs we tried in half to get the food out) and that is when he is not angry or hungry; when angered I think the splintering of your arm would be enough to make you drop your stick in the other arm's hand.

I think you may overestimate how strong people are.

Or clever. My associate was running from the police, had an Alsatian set upon him. He let it grab his arm then picked it up and snapped its spine over his knee and then fled.

I've had a dog set on me in a street fight. It grabbed my sleeve so I ran it its owner with it attached. He fled.

As for the cudgel, poor weapon on close combat. If you find yourself with a swinging weapon, use it like a spike, not a bat.

Air Bud 1361

Hootch 1361

Vainqueur Bud 1361

* I had to read the French wikipedia Judicial Combat section on the Dueling page in order to find that word.

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