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Comment by jonesb6 | Hacker News Reader

"No salary gap exists between women and men in tech, says job search firm Dice, looking at its annual survey of 16,000 tech professionals, as long as you are comparing people with equal experience, education, and job titles.

That, of course, is a big if. And previous data from Dice found about a $10,000 pay gap between men and women if not controlled for those factors.

Dice’s president, Bob Melk, in a letter to the media, indicated that, while generally the men (54 percent) and women (51 percent) surveyed reported being satisfied with their compensation, cash just doesn’t mean as much to women as it does to men. Melk indicated that employeers are offering women alternatives to higher salaries, including flexible work hours and the ability to telecommute. (I have to say, wouldn’t it be nice if these options were in addition to, instead of a replacement for, higher salaries?) Dice’s complete analysis of motivators is in the figure at right."

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Please don't just paste quotes from the article into the thread.

I saw that it was a very small article and thought it might benefit mobile readers who think twice before clicking a link, won't happen again.

Thanks. We appreciate the helpful intent, but it's better to leave the thread for discussion.

>That, of course, is a big if. And previous data from Dice found about a $10,000 pay gap between men and women if not controlled for those factors.

So what you are saying is that more experienced and more educated people get paid more? The horror! Seriously though, what is the problem with more experienced and educated people getting paid more?

There are more forms of discrimination on the basis of sex than unequal pay, which is what this survey most directly evaluates. Some of the forms of discrimination are illegal, others are not. Some of the latter may be due to cultural effects which we collectively may decide to change.

The problem is that logic you gave is suspect to a survivorship bias. Consider a hypothetical where 50% of the women in tech are arbitrarily excluded from the field at age 30, while none of the men face that exclusion. The men and women who are in the field at age 40 have the same experience, education, and pay. Thus, equal pay alone does not indicate the lack of discrimination on the basis of sex.

As a more real-world example, Robinson v. Jacksonville Shipyards, Inc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workplace_harassment#Robinson_.... is one of the earlier court cases which established that sexual harassment can lead to "an increase of women quitting jobs, getting transferred, or being fired" and "The sexualization of the workplace imposes burdens on women that are not borne by men". (Quotes from the decision at http://www.leagle.com/decision/19912246760FSupp1486_12018/RO.... ) If more women welders leave the field than men welders, because of sexual harassment in the workplace, then it doesn't matter that those women who stay in the field have the same pay as the men who stay.

Thus, the "big if" might be expanded to "if men and women are given the same encouragement, same access to education, and same opportunity to gain experience." This survey assumes that that is true.

>The problem is that logic you gave is suspect to a survivorship bias.

There is no such problem. What you are bringing up is a related, but different issue. The underlying question is still valid for the problem being discussed. If we want to bring in related but different problems... we could start by bringing in the issue of the gender difference in prisons which has really nasty effect on ability get a good wage... or a job at all.

What is the question? You asked two in your earlier comment. My answer primarily addresses your first question:

> So what you are saying is that more experienced and more educated people get paid more?

The answer to that is "no." I interpret jonesb6's comment as pointing out that the survey depends on a survivorship bias.

Thus, "more experienced and more educated people get paid more" is an incorrect translation of that comment as jonesb6 was not saying that but was making a different point.

It would be interesting to see what the results are if they remove the constraint of job title.

A tech organization probably has more similar salaries for the same types of jobs than many other types of business does.

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