Europe’s new cold war turns digital as Vladimir Putin expands media offensive | Hacker News Reader

Europe’s new cold war turns digital as Vladimir Putin expands media offensive

theguardian.com

28 pointsrwmj16 comments

The whole tone of this article tries to pin Russia in a bad light. (especially the opening).. As much as many people may disagree- what if /this/ is the propoganda?

it's very easy to say "Don't trust him, he's a liar"- but if the two that are saying not to trust each other are historically feuding, then perhaps you should believe neither and check facts while attempting to avoid biased sources.

it's pretty obvious propaganda

It is interesting to watch the tone regarding Russia change as the leadership changes.

After the dismantling of the Soviet Union, Russia under Yeltsin was a friend. At the same time the nation's economy was carved up between local oligarchs and foreign multinationals.

Then the change to Putin, that goes after said oligarchs to wrest back control. Now all of a sudden Russia is the big scary bear to the east.

I don't see a big scary aggressor. I am looking at a nation and leader that wants some degree of self-determination, and is being vilified and boxed in as a response.

I don't see a big scary aggressor

You missed the shooting down of the civilian airliner and the destabilisation of Ukraine.

But of course you could apply tu quoque here as well. The entire area from Vilnius to Islamabad has both US and Russian proxy forces, influence-purchasers, spies and propagandists active in it. That's where the carve-up is going on.

Do people actually believe that Putin personally ordered to shoot down that plane? What incentive did he have to do something that would obviously turn the whole world against him and lead to many sanctions?

Do you think him doing something obviously stupid like this is more likely than just supplying serious weapons to incompetent "soldiers"?

Not directly, obviously, any more than Reagan ordered the shootdown of Iran Air Flight 655. But in both cases the underlying wrong was escalating a conflict, putting the weapons in the area and setting rules of engagement that allowed the launching of missiles when the country was not officially at war.

The incursion into Ukraine was presumably supposed to be deniable, unlike the Iraqui invasion of Kuwait.

Obligitory: Hacking Online Polls and Other Ways British Spies Seek To Control The Internet https://theintercept.com/2014/07/14/manipulating-online-poll...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_Internet_sockp...

Reporting on what the Russians are up to is important, but so is perspective. And I find it a bit annoying how Russia is being blamed for many things as a way for European leaders to avoid taking responsibility.

How is this trolling? Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll. Their intent doesn't seem to be to anger their reader, but to change their opinion. It is political propaganda.

Calling it trolling instead of a nation state trying to influence you belittles the phenomenon.

It's organized by the state it's not just random people.

Which is why I said "a nation state trying to influence you".

This article sort of seems a lot like pre-emptive damage control. Certainly don't believe everything you read on the internet but that should go for all sources that aren't well sourced. People need to get better at separating out facts from propaganda.

All through history offensive weapons have always changed in reaction to defensive weapons and vice versa': why should a media "war" be any different? The tools which allow us to be discover truth can equally be used to generate falsehood or create confusion or affect opinion and policy. Truth is such a slippery concept and can be manipulated like anything else.

Why are the establishment mouthpieces trying so hard to create a new Cold War?

Is it because the Terror War isn't enough to justify the elites' desired levels military spending?

> Is it because the Terror War isn't enough to justify the elites' desired levels military spending?

It's the politics of fear. I wish there was something we could do about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares

not sure who is trolling whom

Apparently people aren't sure what is good vs evil anymore....what a sad world we live in.

Greed: Russia's former largest foreign investor: Putin is worth $200 billion.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-former-largest-foreig...

Wrath: HOW MANY MORE YEARS WILL PUTIN OCCUPY UKRAINE?

http://www.newsweek.com/how-many-more-years-will-putin-occup...

Here Are The Numbers On Putin And Journalists Ending Up Dead