Yep, terrific commentary by Myungwan Kim 9p on the AGA channel.
For the folks who aren't as familiar with the game, how did you find the commentary (for any channel)? What would you be interested in hearing for events like these?
For the folks who aren't as familiar with the game, how did you find the commentary (for any channel)? What would you be interested in hearing for events like these?
However it was infuriating that many times they switched randomly between video feeds, so I couldn't actually see what the commentators were talking about on their board. Once it even got stuck on "Match starts in 0 minutes" for a couple minutes!
I've read a few different reviews and watched Michael Redmond's live commentary as well, who obviously has a slower Japanese style of play than Myungwan, and his variations all exhibited a very thorough style and sensibility, but I think he missed the key moment, and Myungwan called it -- the bottom right just killed Lee Sedol, and it was totally unexpected.
And, Sedol was thinking about it too, because right after he resigned, he wanted to clear out that bottom right corner and rework some variations. I presume that's one frustration playing with a computer -- they'll have to instrument AlphaGo to do a little kibbitzing and talking after a game. That would be just awesome.
If you are very, very inspired by AlphaGo's side of this, it's really incredible to imagine, just for a moment, that building that white wall down to the right was in preparation for the white bottom right corner variation. The outcome of that corner play was to just massively destroy black territory, on a very painful scale, and it made perfect use of the white wall in place from much earlier in the game.
If AlphaGo was in fact aiming at those variations while the wall was being built, I would think at a fundamental level, Go professionals are in the position that chess grandmasters were ten years ago -- acknowledging they will never see as deeply as a computerized opponent. It's both incredibly exciting, and a blow to an admirable and very unusual group of worldwide game masters.
I loved every minute!!
I'd love to see one day a live commentary, with an extra window showing what computer is thinking at the moment.
1. The computer can discard all its current best ideas and flip through new ones so fast, it would be a flickering blur to humans.
2. Even if we put a speed limit on it, the move being considered is itself the result of considering a lot of slight variations.
3. The ability to _articulate_ in a human language what makes the move nice is itself a "hard problem" closely related to natural language processing.
4. Even just having some color codes or symbols and grouping related ideas has some serious problems: now the visualization is pretty technical to begin with, the computer is still able to memorize and compare moves at an unbelievable rate, and it's still fundamentally not the same as the method Go masters use to find a solution.
Even with all that thinking output on the screen, the computer would still soundly beat myself and another (intermediate) player.
Here are some screenshots to illustrate what I'm talking about:
Where did you find this 9p AGA commentary? I don't see it in the list of AGA videos on youtube.
I don't understand how the AGA live stream didn't appear there for me?!
Andrew Jackson's role is invaluable in clarifying MyungWan Kim's thoughts: the infamously opaque "play this one, and then this one", or his white/black colour mix ups...
I personally think they're a good combo. Andrew is getting gradually better at only jumping in when necessary.
He inevitably asks questions you want Myungwan to answer.