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Comment by akhatri_aus | Hacker News Reader

I'm not sure why the Romanian & Bulgarian issue is being mentioned.

Another part of it is Canadians and Americans have access to the EU where you can just get there without forms or paying anything whereas you have to fill in a silly form and pay a bit of cash to go the other way.

Semantically it's not termed a visa but it's just like one so this is the EU trying to put in a silly form and small payment as a reciprocal measure.

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You've clearly never applied for an American visa. Filling a "silly form and paying a bit of cash" is way more convenient than having to make a consular appointment, pay $$$ for that appointment, go there early in the morning on a workday to avoid long lines, still wait an hour, get grilled by a consular officer, pay more $$$ for your approved visa, and have to wait days for them to mail your passport back.

Yes that's true, but this is also about Canada & the USs silly form on EU citizens whereas there is nothing the other way.

Bulgaria, Romania & Poland have high overstay rates (above 2%) despite having a high visa refusal rate. If they were part of the Visa Waiver Program it would make them the worst offenders.

Meanwhile the overstay rate for my passport is lower than many visa waiver countries, but we're not even considered for visa waiver because we're not part of Europe. It's about politics, not logic.

How does what your are saying (high overstay rates) go with the current fact that thousands of people are crossing the Mexican border into the US and apparently the US is ok with that?

I'm not against that, but I find it highly hypocritical for the US on one hand to require visas from RO/BG people (and maybe others) on overstaying concerns, while on another hand allowing free flow into US from the Mexican side.

It's a question of enforceability. If the requirement on Mexicans were tougher they would use the porous borders more.

The weather can't be dictated by a piece of paper and a pen.

It seems the Obama administration could order with a piece of paper and a pen the border guards to stop controlling border flow:

> The National Border Patrol Council (NBPC) and Pinal County Sheriff joined forces to denounce the Obama Administration and accused the White House of handcuffing the efforts of law enforcement in regards to the enforcement of immigration law.

> He reinforced the evidence that the Obama Administration has been bypassing Congress by taking illegal executive actions and forcing Border Patrol agents to not do their job of enforcing the law along the border.

Because mexicans are doing the jobs even romanians and bulgarians won't do

I'm Polish and I don't think anyone cares about going to US and staying for work anymore. It was incredibly tempting right after the fall of soviet union and LOTS of people overstayed their tourist visas, but nowadays? The standard of living in the US is nearly identical, the pay is not that much better unless you are looking for highly qualified positions(and if that's the case, why the hell would you overstay a tourist visa), if you get caught you get deported, if you fall ill you have to pay for medical treatment. The flights are expensive.

If any young Poles look for work abroad it's much easier to go to Germany, France, Spain or UK. Even unskilled work is paid much better than in Poland, medical treatment is free everywhere, we can work legally everywhere, wherever we work it gives us right to national pension from that country after we retire, getting to any of those countries is easy and hassle free.

Seriously, I don't understand why any Pole would like to get a tourist visa to US and then stay and work, it's just not worth it.

On the other hand, I wish Poland was part of the VWP, because then I could go and actually visit US as a tourist without having to spend a whole day at a consulate trying to get a visa.

I have US Visa and I prefer it. I had to spent a few hours but I'm done for 10 years. I don't have to fill out forms every time.

I think a green card is not technicaly a visa. It's closer to citizenship than a visa.

No, I have a Visa type R class B1/B2

Non-Immigrant visa (such as a B-1) are issued for long durations, up to 10 years. Note they don't allow staying for 10 years, just multiple entries in that period.

EU citizens can also get US tourist visas and enter on those if they want. Visa waiver is an option, not compulsory.

You've clearly never entered the EU as a US citizen where the whole process looks like that: 1) Turn up at the airport 2) Hand over your passport 3) Wait a few seconds 4) Receive back your passport. If you are unlucky you get to have a one-minute conversation with the border official.

I received a US visa in the past. I had to fill in an online form, make an appointment which arbitrarily setup for me, visit the US embassy go through security etc, wait in the line for an hour, go through an interview, pay, and then wait for a 1-2 weeks. On the bright side they gave me 10 years visitor VISA so I visit whenever over that period without having to get a new one.

Don't you now need to take two appointments, one for biometric data entry and a few days later for the visa interview? If the consulate is not in your city you would lose more than a few workdays.

Are you kidding? Entering the US as European requires filling out long forms (days in advance), weird questions, finger prints, eye scan etc.

Yes exactly, i'm not kidding!

Entering the EU as a Canadian or as an American has no forms before and is free. You just book your ticket and go.., if you're unlucky at worst a 1 minute conversation with a border official. That is what the EU finds that the easiness of the EU's version of entry is not reciprocated

IIRC the questions asked when applying for an ESTA are not really different to the ones that used to be asked on the old paper forms you filled out on the plane and handed to the immigration official.

If you're a Romanian citizen living in another country, you'll have to fly back to Bucharest (even if you've never been there before) for an appointment at the US Embassy there, show your papers including flight tickets and hotel reservation, come back to the UK to move on with your life and then wait for an answer.

If you're lucky and get approved, you might also be double lucky and get the approval before the actual trip happens.

It's not impossible, but it is far away from filing a silly form and paying a bit of cash.

> and pay a bit of cash to go the other way.

Citation, please? Travel/tourist visas for visitors staying less than 90 days may use the Visa Waiver Program [0] to enter the USA free of charge.

[0] https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-...

It costs $14 to apply for an ESTA online which is a pre-requisite to use the VWP, and you have to renew it for another $14 every 2 years or when your passport is renewed, whichever comes first. https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1072/kw/esta/

There's a $14 fee to the US, $7 to Canada alongside the form.

[0] http://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/frequently-...

[1] http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1056...

Yeah an actual US tourist visa costs $160 (plus any reciprocity fees), $14 is peanuts by comparison.

This may be so but the issue is more that the EU has no fees and no form for US or Canadian citizens which is absolutely nothing compared to peanuts.

So start charging Americans $14 to enter the EU, I'm sure they won't care.

Good to know - the fee are paid to DHS - and not the State Department, which actually issues the visa.

The fees are small and perhaps the form itself is simple, but something that bureaucrats never seem to consider is how much documentation you have to read and understand before you can pay the fee and fill the form.

The FAQ from the US site runs to 6023 words of dense language. If you're not completely fluent in English, you're not going to understand every nuance. And this is just the FAQ.

The Canadian site is similarly lacking empathy for human beings. For example, it says, "Canadian citizens, including dual citizens, and Canadian permanent residents are not eligible to apply for an eTA." While this is technically correct, why couldn't they have phrased it as, Canadian citizens, including dual citizens, and Canadian permanent residents do not an eTA and should not apply for one. That would have been much easier to understand.

The visa waiver program does not cover all EU countries.

Or all EU citizens of the eligible countries:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158

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