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Comment by PJDK | Hacker News Reader

There's a lot of comments in this thread throwing up their hands about this. That's the attitude that will let this sort of thing happen.

Bills are published like this well ahead of them even being debated so that interested parties can comment.

There's a major faction within the Conservative party that is pro privacy (e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7450627.stm), and it's also pro business. This is anti privacy and anti business. It's a winnable fight, but not if you give up at the first suggestion of a thing you don't like.

Write to MPs, say "As CEO of awesome corp I would seriously consider relocating to Berlin". That sort of thing will get attention.

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People of Ireland speaking here:

-Not a massive fan of the British surveillance state?

-Want to stay in the EU?

-Enjoy low corporate tax rate of 12.5%?

-Enjoy friendly, well educated, English speaking, Pro-American people, good beer, decent music, nice quality of life, low crime and safe green natural environment?

-Want (relatively incompetent) pro-business government to butt out of your companies launch plans?

Invest in Ireland -> http://www.idaireland.com

This has been a public service announcement from the country next door. #irelandlovesyou :)

I sometimes wonder why Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook etc. don't have data centres in the UK but many are in Ireland.

Most likely cost. But I'm sure it has factored in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corporation_v._Unite...

Because they love the Double Irish Dutch Sandwich?

Cafes in the Dublin "Silicon Docks" really should sell that at lunchtime. It sounds tastey.

Taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

Yes please, where can I sign up?

Seriously though, I live in Berkshire, and am looking for decent places to move to. The grass is definitely always greener! :)

I have even begun to look at some roles in SF.

If your so close, this might be a better link for you to look at! :)

https://www.enterprise-ireland.com

Thanks! I will look seriously at this. My next business will definitely not be within the clutches of HM's finest.

Dublin seems to be the only worthwhile location for tech-related business, which is a shame as I prefer cities like Galway and Cork.

Depends...

Galway has always had a small but still decent tech sector.

Cork has always had a good medical tech sector.

Eh, maybe.

I'm from Galway originally, and I've been casually eying up the situation in anticipation of a Brexit disaster. So far I haven't seen anything outside of Dublin that's wowed me, but would love to be proven wrong.

I've started putting my affairs in order in preparation to move to Ireland should Brexit actually happen. There will be massive upheaval in the UK if it goes ahead, and I'm not sure sticking around would be my preferred option.

Welcome. Look me up if you are thinking about it.

(I imagine sterling completely getting smashed if Brexit may also make a lot of people think the same as you).

Also, there are a ton of roles in Dublin with someone with your experience.

Same.

I was born and raised in Ireland, left for Scotland about six years ago. We'll be abandoning ship if this Brexit madness proceeds.

EDIT: now that I think about it, I'm kinda looking forward to a swarm of bright Irish ex-pats returning home from Britain if the political situation goes bad, as it'd be a huge boost to the Irish economy, and would go some way to reversing the classic brain-drain Ireland has suffered from.

So true...I count myself as one of them......just in the process of moving home after 8 years in London. Hoping to bring the company/parts of it back to Dublin!

Well....if the SNP win a majority in the Scottish parliament in May and Scotland's electorate vote to stay in the EU in June (with a reasonably decisive majority - say 55%-in) then we're probably going to have another independence referendum within 12-18 months. I think this time Scots will vote to leave the Union (the United Kingdom) so that Scotland can remain in the EU. Polls thus far suggest that more Scots, than not, think the EU, whilst not perfect, is generally a good thing and would like to remain in the EU.

I guess what I'm saying is that if the planets align just right then you can all move your clever, canny Irish brains to Scotland instead :)

As an aside, I lived in Donegal for three years (in the middle of no-where between Letterkenny and Milford). Despite being a bit far away from all the action in Dublin, Galway and Cork, I quite liked it. Was very fortunate to see "Mr Nice" (Howard Marks) tell his story at the An Grianan in LK in ~2009, amongst other folks.

edit: clarifying "Union"

Aye, fingers crossed :)

I've been living in Edinburgh for the last few years, and absolutely love it. I'd be delighted to stay and live in an independent Scottish state.

As a mainland European, I'm starting to root for Brexit too. The sooner we're rid of the toxic influence of England, the better. It's a shame though, as England was a huge proponent of necessary EU reform as well.

I disagree. The UK helps provide balance to prevent France/Germany agreeing in private on deals and then presenting them to the rest of us for approval. Also British instincts on some of the business side of things are very useful.

Sadly you don't have a vote! Aside from this bill which has not been passed yet, what's the toxic influence you're concerned about?

No, I'm not sad about that. It's not my "fight".

I was mainly referring to the xenophobia expressed in the lead-up to the official campaign. It seemed to be mostly directed at Eastern Europeans, but the UK isn't exactly doing a stellar job accepting Syrian refugees either (what's the latest figure? 20,000 refugees over a five year period? That's the same figure that The Netherlands accepted just last year. Sweden admitted 4x that figure in 2015).

But the overall repressive stance towards software/technology, or the authoritarian stand-off between the MoH and NHS doctors doesn't help to raise my opinion of the UK either.

Firstly, it is the entire UK, not just England

The UK is definitely a bit proponent of necessary EU reform. One significant reason behind Brexit, is that getting the EU to actually change is nigh on impossible.

As the other comments request, what is the toxic influence in your opinion?

The big guns are already doing it.

It won't help, because the Home Office is run by paranoid authoritarians and crazies, and they keep trying to pull crap like this no matter who is in power.

The critical question is just how likely is it that the gov will prosecute Apple, Google, or FB for not following the rules.

"Not very", I'd guess.

How likely is the gov to prosecute Tiny Corp Ltd?

"8.1 Small companies (with under 10,000 users) will not be obligated to provide a permanent interception capability, although they may be obligated to give effect to a warrant."

But look at this:

"8.17 A person to whom a technical capability notice is given is under a duty to comply with the notice. In respect of a technical capability notice to give effect to equipment interference or bulk acquisition warrants, the duty to comply with a technical capability notice is enforceable against a person in the UK by civil proceedings by the Secretary of State.

The duty to comply with a technical capability notice to give effect to interception warrants and CD authorisations is enforceable against a person in the UK and a person outside the UK by civil proceedings by the Secretary of State."

That's civil proceedings, not criminal proceedings. So basically the SoS can sue, but not jail anyone.

It's all quite confused, and fundamentally fails to understand the differences between targeted surveillance, bulk surveillance, end-to-end encryption, commercial encryption for (e.g.) secure banking, open source VPNs, and so on.

If you pull apart the language, the mental model is of someone who thinks encryption is like an envelope around a letter. So if you demand a de-enveloping tool from the people who make and sell envelopes you've done your job.

There's a bit more to it, but the legal language doesn't have any insight into that.

> It won't help, because the Home Office is run by paranoid authoritarians and crazies, and they keep trying to pull crap like this no matter who is in power.

And forever pushing back is the price of freedom. OP is right, you have to keep telling them no.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. ~~~ It's best to include the full sticker price.

I wonder how different things would be if Davis had won the Conservative party leadership. Probably as hard to tell as what might have happened if Gore had kept his presidential win.

Edit: Totally agree that if you want to help fight this then write to your MP and consider donating towards a publicity campaign by https://www.dontspyonus.org.uk.

I used to work in Westminster and Davis was one of the only Conservatives who was pro-privacy. Partly because he a) Had a military background so wasn't intimidated by people in uniform recommending things to him. He was aware as anyone with military service of the crap that the military often push. b)He had spent time over seeing parts of the intelligence budget, so was very sceptical of the things they were pushing and their effectiveness.

Agreed. Need to exist enough voices to keep the balance.

Didn't expect UK to present a bill like this one. Russia or China on the other hand would have made some sense.

In both Russia and China you find more "synergy" between private companies and state. There wouldn't be need for pass legislation because a company refusing to cooperate would be promptly "educated".

In the western countries there is less synergy and more dispute. So they need to legislate for the law abiding organizations to become "outlawed" at some point for doing what is the ethically correct thing to do.

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