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Comment by secfirstmd | Hacker News Reader

Ha, this reminds me of my own track record in applying for jobs...

I must have possibly the widest number of rejections by many of the most prestigious companies, NGOs and government institutions in the world.

Prestigious names like Google, Apple, Facebook, McKinsey, Stripe, The Guardian, BBC, UN, Amnesty International, Christian Aid, Shell, Statoil, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, JP Morgan, Deutsche Bank, US Embassy London, UK Labour Party, UK Foreign Office, Stroz Freidberg, Billiter, Mandiant, Portland PR, KPMG, Deloitte - that's just a sample!

After awhile I decided I was just better off setting up my own company - and haven't looked back since. Now some of them work with and have to hire my company instead. :)

If anyone feels bored and wants to add your name to such an illustrious list, drop me an email with a job description, I'll make a fake application and you too can reject with the stars... :)

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That's quite a list! I can't really compete at all, apart from to say that I too was rejected by Deloitte, in somewhat amusing circumstances - having negotiated the necessary hoops to get to a final interview, the very nice lady interviewing me asked what should, really, have been a very simple question: "Why do you want to become an accountant?" Sadly some sort of terrible realisation hit me at this point and I froze, looked at her in horror, paused for an eternity before finally answering, "Well, I've always liked numbers!" She looked baffled. I started laughing. She started laughing too (probably, in retrospect, nervously). That was the end of my fledgling career as an accountant.

What is the appropriate answer, for the aspiring accountants among us?

I wouldn't bother with a direct answer to that question.

I love money

and Panama.

And a man, a plan, a canal

Something like...

"Accounting is the language of business. Accurate, precise, and timely financial information is vital to the success of any business."

Except that doesn't really describe one's motivations for becoming an accountant.

That and the fact that it sounds good, makes it perfect

"all the best white collar criminals have a good knowledge of accounting!" Won't cut it either.

There are many occasions where the appropriate answer to a question does not accurately answer it.

How about "it's a stable and respectable profession"? Sounds like a very reasonable motivation.

It is, and yet I have a feeling that is not the answer they are looking for.

That shows IMO that the values embodied by today's corporations (well at least by their HR departments) are out of whack. I'm hoping the companies will abandon their current bullshit "passion" view of employment, and will start valuing honest hard work. I'm affraid that's in conflict with the whole current American mythos though.

It makes a certain kind of sense. Given one guy who wants a steady paycheck and another guy who's wild about spreadsheets and would do corporate accounting for free (let's assume this guy exists) the latter is probably more likely to stick around longer. Anyway, having to give disingenuous answers in interviews isn't really the problem, IMO.

> would do corporate accounting for free (let's assume this guy exists)

The problem is that it's estabilished as the new norm. Instead of accepting that maybe 0.1% accountants are passionate about their job and thus getting hiring like that is just a super-lucky coincidence, they actively seek them, forcing people to pretend about their passion for the job.

As a consequence, the companies lose candidates who would make excellent accountants, but are not able or not willing to lie during the interview. Another consequence is that people are generally unhappy to work in a place built on bullshit.

haha.

"Let's take a hypothetical view and say, in 7 to 10 years, when I make partner, there might be an opportunity for me to work on an account - a company with an unusual structure, with a novel, ground-breaking business, and unorthodox cashflows arrangements and asset valuations, and as an accountant I am going to write the story to highlight the strengths of the business while being fully cognizant of the risks, and the investors, the stakeholders, business management will appreciate the effort and hard-thinking we put in to make the story relevant and whole. And I want that to happen in my life.

but until that time, I know I have to put in the punishing work of auditing [or whatever dept you are applying to]. And I may not find it very enjoyable. Yet if I never take the first step, that end goal I just spoke about will never materialize."

you can talk about whatever is cool at that time. nowadays accounting for tech companies is all the rage and the methods for accounting for manufacturing or retail companies are not very relevant. back when I was just wrapping up my degree the Kraft-Nestle merger was the talk of the town.

Also don't take my suggestion too seriously - I am not an accountant.

As someone who had a similar (but less climactic) realization, this is amazing.

On the one hand, that's a bizarre reason to block an applicant.

On the other hand, if a trivial setback is enough to make you give up the career, better to get it early.

What was the terrible realisation? That you don't want to become an accountant?

Yeah. I applied for Deloitte because a big-4 accountancy firm ticked the right sort of boxes for someone who'd been to a good school, a good university, got good grades, and was looking for a reasonably prestigious job with decent perks (and had no real idea what they wanted to do). I'm not sure the reality of having to spend the next 30 years going into an office and scheming around Sarbanes-Oxley had really occurred to me right until she asked that question.

I should note I have absolutely nothing against accountants!

How does Umbrella compare to EFF's SSD content: https://ssd.eff.org/en

(And yeah, likely have more rejections, but I automated generating custom resumes, submissions, etc. for some research on how resumes work.)

Clever idea to automate the process!

Umbrella actually uses some of the awesome EFF SSD content for some of our digital security stuff. Clearly we've broken a lot of stuff down to make it work in an app. Probably the major big difference is that Umbrella has a huge amount of stuff on physical and operational security. Along with psychosocial issues like dealing with PTSD in the field.

Our content (like EFF SSD) is CC so available here: https://github.com/securityfirst/Umbrella_content

Any particular findings you'd like to share?

I'm directly interested as I'm putting together my first resume.

Every applicant and receiver is different.

Point of a resume is to get an invite for an interview.

Generally speaking that you'll get/create the most value by knowing as much as possible about the job, company, staff, etc. - and if possible speaking with the hiring manager before providing a resume; it's rare that a company won't want a resume at all. By delaying handing over a resume though, you have the most opportunity to match it to their expectations.

Main key is to realize how important your first jobs are to your future success and put a lot of effort into finding the best opportunities possible.

Good luck!

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