Comment by dredmorbius | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dredmorbius | Hacker News Reader

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Speaking for your opposition whilst misrepresenting their arguments is very dirty pool.

There are numerous long-term expert users and developers of Linux who've spoken against systemd, its design, its behavior, and its developers. Including Linus Torvalds, Alan Cox, Ted T'so, and Patrick Volkerding

(That's the original developer of Linux, the long-time second in command, the lead filesystem developer, and the Slackware distro's maintainer -- the oldest extant linux distro.)

Mark Shuttleworth, Eric Raymond, and Ian Jackson are notable other critics.

For actual arguments against systemd:

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_...

https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/tso-and-linus-and...

The laptop vs server divide:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2837182/linux/back-into-lin...

Bad design and bad attitude. One or the other might be survivable. Both are likely not.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2608798/data-center/systemd...

Uselessd's observations on misrepresentations by systemd advocates:

http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/

Five troubles:

http://www.draketo.de/light/english/top-5-systemd-troubles

LWN on Debian's debates: https://lwn.net/Articles/452865/

Wikipedia on Systemd's controversy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#History_and_controve...

Could you point to where Linus said he doesn't like the design of systemd? AFAIK he's only disliked the binary logging (perhaps among a few other small things) but he liked it overall.

> I don't actually have any particularly strong opinions on systemd itself. I've had issues with some of the core developers that I think are much too cavalier about bugs and compatibility, and I think some of the design details are insane (I dislike the binary logs, for example), but those are details, not big issues. [1]

or

> I have to say, I don't really get the hatred of systemd. I think it improves a lot on the state of init, and no, I don't see myself getting into that whole area.

> Yeah, it may have a few odd corners here and there, and I'm sure you'll find things to despise. That happens in every project. I'm not a huge fan of the binary logging, for example. But that's just an example. I much prefer systemd's infrastructure for starting services over traditional init, and I think that's a much bigger design decision.

> Yeah, I've had some personality issues with some of the maintainers, but that's about how you handle bug reports and accept blame (or not) for when things go wrong. If people thought that meant that I dislike systemd, I will have to disappoint you guys. [2]

Both a quick Google away. To sum it up: Linus is okay with systemd. He just doesn't like its maintainers because they're straight up primadonnas. [3]

1: http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-li...

2: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/06/30/0058243/interviews...

3: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/05/torvalds_sievers_dus...

Those are the ones I found too, but the previous parent says that Linus has spoken against systemd which is new to me.

Their latest may well be that when logind do not find a functioning journald it will dump its output into /dev/kmsg, potentially swamping vital kernel output.

https://plus.google.com/+StevenRostedt/posts/RCCcWG5A5Lb

I remember seeing a video where he said he didn't care one way or the other about the technical merits and that it seemed good enough, but he did have serious concerns about the attitude of the developers about other people's technical issues when using it.

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