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Comment by timbowhite | Hacker News Reader

> Trying to pull a fast one is risky, and that prevents most people from trying.

Well not these guys: $81M was stolen from the Bangladesh Bank via the SWIFT network in February https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Bangladesh_Bank_heist

> And second, there are humans in the loop

There sure are!

The IRS Seized $107,000 From Store owner for "structuring" http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/12/nc-store-owner-on...

MasterCard Cuts Off Wikileaks, Assange's Bank Account Frozen http://gawker.com/5707851/mastercard-cuts-off-wikileaks-assa...

DOJ's 'Operation Choke Point' May Be Root of Porn Star Bank Account Closings http://reason.com/blog/2014/04/28/doj-operation-chokepoint-a...

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> $81M was stolen the Bangladesh Bank via the SWIFT

Nearly all of which was later recovered.

> The IRS Seized $107,000

> DOJ's 'Operation Choke Point'

Those are political problems, not problems with the banking system. If the government decides to fuck with you, then you're fucked no matter what the banking system looks like.

> MasterCard Cuts Off Wikileaks

This is a real problem, and it a result of what is IMHO the main unaddressed flaw in our current system: banking is conflated with money transfer. Bitcoin does address this problem, but IMHO it doesn't do it very well. The risks and costs are too high.

> Nearly all of which was later recovered.

Citation needed.

> Those are political problems, not problems with the banking system. If the government decides to fuck with you, then you're fucked no matter what the banking system looks like.

I disagree. Has any government shut down a Bitcoin address for "structuring", or publishing pornography?

Ross Ulbricht got shut down pretty hard.

Sorry I guess I wasn't specific enough. I was referring to the cryptography that makes bitcoins untouchable to anyone except the person with the private key... not some guy's crappy opsec.

The weakest link is the one that gets attacked. When the tech is good, the humans become the weakest link.

> Citation needed.

Sorry, $951M was stolen. All but $81M was recovered.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nyfed-bangladesh-malwa...

But let's put this in perspective. MtGox lost BTC600k. As a fraction of the primary money supply, that loss was comparable to a USD loss of about $35 billion (M0=$1.2 trillion). So even before most of the Bangladesh money was recovered it was only 1/30th the size of the MtGox loss. And MtGox wasn't even a theft, it was simple mismanagement. Imagine the attacks people would start to mount if they could net the equivalent of $35 billion (or more) risk-free.

I think you're conflating Bitcoin (the system) with Bitcoin opsec skills.

Yes, I agree: Bitcoin is probably easier to steal from people who don't know what they're doing. (And yes there is probably is smaller chance of the thief being caught).

But as of now, properly secured Bitcoin can't be stolen by any criminal, government, or bank. Even if they have physical access to the owner's shit!

The same cannot be said for any modern national/fiat electronic monetary system.

Well if the Bangladesh Bank was also following proper security protocol the money couldn't have been stolen as well.

The 'tech' is, more or less, the easy part. The hard part is all the people involved, and getting them to follow the rules. Sure, you make the tech more resilient to human 'error', but things like MtGox (or Bangladesh Bank) still happened.

If you want to use bitcoin in the real world then opsec skills become part of the equation whether you like it or not.

Couldn't agree more. Bitcoin is not for everyone.

Just like using a bank account in the real world involves not divulging your account #, bank website passowrd, SSN, birthday, etc.

The Bangladesh bank heist is perfectly consistent with the GP. You can expect small amounts of large theft (which likely affects users indirectly) or a large amount of small theft targeted directly at users.

>The IRS Seized $107,000

He got it back eventually plus $20k costs http://www.cato.org/blog/lyndon-mclellan-finally-beats-irs

The fact that it happened at all (and without McLellan being proven guilty of anything!) is indicative of a severe security flaw in the banking system.

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