Old World metals traded on Alaska coast hundreds of years before Europeans | Hacker News Reader

Old World metals traded on Alaska coast hundreds of years before Europeans

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56 pointsmooreds20 comments

And they wore silk in Rome before Rome had ever heard of China. Trade doesn't have to go halfway around the world on one camel. It can go from neighbor to neighbor 'diffusely' with the same result. I'd not be surprised if native Americans had traded old world items 10,000 years ago.

While what you said is true, the Beringia straight closed 10,000 years ago. Any contact/trading/migration after that event is always interesting to find out.

What is interesting about this is that some sort of trading/contact was occurring across the Pacific Ocean around 1100-1300 AD. While anticipated, this is a significant find.

Trading across the Bering Strait with inuit ships 900 years ago is quite impressive. I've watched Deadliest Catch!

I suppose it's also possible things can have drifted over on ship wrecks or in stray boxes.

Well, it's not always so bad, at least not during the warmer seasons, just the crabbing seasons. Deadliest Catch - Wild Pacific Salmon wouldn't be anywhere near as deadly or engaging for television. I don't imagine it'd be much more entertaining or risk involved than Wicked Tuna.

You can actually get across the Strait on foot (or by dog sled) with a bit of kayak assist for some of the year, and the natives (who are mostly Iñupiat and Yup'ik in that region -- "Inuit" is largely a Canadian term) traveled across it regularly both over the ice and by water. Rumor has it that there was a considerable amount of cross-Strait travel even during the depths of the Cold War.

Edit: see http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=200...

As I noted before, rumor has it that the locals have always (and often) done this. They just don't publicize it in a manner that brings it to the attention of the authorities. :-)

Its not really that bad all year long, there are seasons. A lot of cruise ships go up there during the summer and they wouldn't risk those (although there is a video of a bad docking recently but that wasn't weather related).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEPNfLmcUO0&sns=fb

Or by dogsled.

> What is interesting about this is that some sort of trading/contact was occurring across the Pacific Ocean around 1100-1300 AD.

That doesn't seem particularly surprising, given the great migrations around Polynesia in a similar era.

The Romans were aware of China at the time. There are some theories that the decline of Rome is linked to the asymmetry of the trade with China - the Chinese only wanted gold and silver so the Romans ran perpetual deficits with China. The English had the same problem until they came up with the opium trade.

Well, for the 1st 200 years, by myth and legend. The silk had to come from somewhere.

The coast of Brazil and the Cape Verde Islands are not terribly far (relatively speaking). I think a lot of Americans underestimate how close the Americas are to the Euroafrican landmasses.

Also, this is neat reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_co...

Brazil is about 1000 miles from Africa. Cape Verde is 350 miles from Africa, and Madagascar 200 miles--neither of those were settled by indigenous populations of Africa (Cape Verde was colonized by Portuguese and Madagascar by Austronesians from Borneo).

By comparison, the Bering Strait is about ~50 miles wide, and Greenland is about 400 miles each from Labrador and Iceland (note that I'm counting from West Greenland, where the Vikings settled), which is itself ~300 miles from the Faroe Islands thence another 200 miles or so to the Shetlands and 200 miles yet again to Norway. The islands of the Caribbean Sea are generally no more than ~100 miles apart. Bermuda (uninhabited pre-European contact) is ~600 miles away from North Carolina.

Given those distances and what we know about historical shipbuilding technology, combined with evidence of which islands weren't inhabited back then, the only plausible contact routes that existed before the 14th century would be the Bering Sea, Viking longships, and Polynesian outrigger canoes.

The Cape Verde islands were uninhabited until the Portuguese discovered them in 1456.

Cape Verde Islands are closest, but the coast of Africa itself is not much further from Brazil. It's really easy to conceive of trade getting to the Ivory Coast and then traders making the trip to the Americas.

Sure... but this was in Alaska. Pre-Columbus oceanic contact across the Atlantic is not surprising (vikings et al). Across the Pacific is a bit more impressive.

What was your point?

Alaska is only 55 miles from Asia at it's closest point or less if you consider the islands between them. Several people have even swam from one to the other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait

OK, that is much less than I imagined. Seems navigable with pre industrial ships.

Time to update the good, old and increasingly holey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_co...

That is terribly interesting. Thanks.

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