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Comment by downandout | Hacker News Reader

It says:

...Visa and Walmart have been unable to agree on an acceptable fee for Visa transactions. As a result we will no longer accept Visa in our stores across Canada, starting with our stores in Thunder Bay, on July 18, 2016.....We sincerely regret any impact this will have on our customers who use Visa and remain optimistic that we will reach an agreement with Visa.

This is nothing more than a negotiating ploy to get Visa to cave to Walmart's demands before July 18. No major retailer can afford to stop taking Visa. They may take the hit and carry through with it for a while just to show Visa they're serious, but it won't last very long.

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"No major retailer can afford to stop taking Visa."

That remembers me Steve Jobs, the iPad and flash, when he decided to remove flash video. I recall so many people saying "nobody could tell that to the people, people will demand flash, Apple is screwed".

Turns out they could. Your website needs flash? fine, my millions of high income iPad users wont be able to see it.

Wallmark is not a major retailer, it is THE BIGGEST RETAILER in the world!!

By the way, if Wallmark wants they could "help" people transition to Apple or Google pay. Everybody has a smartphone and the only thing is needed for people to use it for paying is getting used to it.

Wallmark knows now alternatives exist so they can exert some negotiation power.

Spoken like a Silicon Valley kid. In my town, nobody uses anything but cash or card at WalMart. And I don't see how phone vs pad is meaningful here - I'm not browsing WalMart, I make the decision to go there or somewhere else before I even get in the car. And if they can't take my money, I won't go there. No chance for them to help me/ coerce me to do anything.

There's other forms of payment than cash/card???

There's other forms of payment than cash/card???

A long time ago people would routinely slow down lines at supermarket checkouts by performing this ritual: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheque

I don't really know how common it is in retail nowadays. It's certainly preferable to card for high value payments. E.g. try paying income tax or property tax by card. It will cost you a certain % extra in fees.

Edit: I forgot about this famous check. Happened a few years ago. I wish I had the assets to be able to hand-write a check for $975 million: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/01/0...

Apple and Android pay use credit cards from MasterCard and Visa, process through those interchanges and pay those fees.

While I agree with you, it's much harder to just not go to a website that doesn't work properly than it is to just either not buy toilet paper, or have to go to the bank and get cash to buy it.

It's not quite fair comparison. Everyone hated flash and quietly agreed that it must go sooner rather than later. On the other hand, most people like paying by card and find it convenient. I don't like carrying cash around and mostly skip places that don't accept cards, so unless Wallmart is the only supermarket in town, they will lose costumers.

Likely - but here's the thing; this could very likely be permanent if they see no noticeable drop in their revenue / profits; or not enough to offset the money saved by refusing to accept Visa.

More to the point - a lot of banks offer both Visa & Mastercard, so for most folks it'd be just a case of swapping cards if they don't already have one (if they feel inconvenienced by the lack of Visa payments).

I think you vastly overestimate the need for Walmart in a person's life if you think they will actually switch their credit card to Mastercard with their bank just so they can shop there.

I think you vastly underestimate both the buying power and brand loyalty shown by people who choose to shop at any retailer, especially discount ones like Walmart.

That's only some of the consumers. Even if there's 5% less business/revenue to Walmart as a result of this decision, that's a huge hit.

Yeah. But that's not the endgame.

Cashiers will almost assuredly offer a Walmart branded MasterCard or Amex if they were trying to buy with visa.

Bingo- Walmart has both eliminated visas Costs and developed a new revenue stream. And I imagine their quants know how many of their visa customers have alternate credit cards or debit capabilities.

While this article is about Canada, in many Midwest US communities Wal-Mart is the store. Mom and pop grocery stores shutdown years ago after not being able to compete. The nearest Kohl's/JCPenny's could be an hour drive away. Everything you buy on a weekly basis comes from Wal-Mart. A policy change like this in America would drastically affect many Midwesterners lives.

Very much so. I will often drive past the local Walmart at well after midnight and see a nearly full parking lot. The number of people who shop there is huge, and they do it because they are living on narrow margins and saving $0.50 on a jar of peanut butter is something that matters to them.

As noted elsewhere in the thread, everyone in Canada already has an Interac debit card (if they have a bank account) which is still being accepted.

> No major retailer can afford to stop taking Visa.

I disagree. Walmart is a huge, major retailer. A lot of people who shop there do the majority of their shopping there. As an example, I have an American Express card. Why? Because I was doing most of my shopping at Costco. It's really not that much of a hassle to get a new credit card. Way more of a hassle to not be able to use a credit card (and get sweet, sweet cashback) for the majority of my shopping.

Walmart customers will do the same. I bet a lot of them will already have non-Visa credit cards, which they can simply start using. The rest will either switch to cash or get a non-Visa card. The power is in Walmart's court here. They offer a lot more value to customers than Visa does. I don't care at all what company's name is written on my card, but I do care that it lets me buy things where I want to.

> A lot of people who shop there do the majority of their shopping there.

Especially in smaller cities where the Wal-Mart "Supercenter" is the only significant retailer available with a broad selection and late hours.

Maybe, but Costco doesn't accept Credit Cards for the same reason, and they're doing fine.

Whaa? They accept cards. They were exclusive to AmEx but they are now exclusive to Visa.

In Canada it's MasterCard. They negotiate different deals for different countries.

My Costco used to only accept Amex and all debit cards, but about a few months ago started accepting Visa and no longer accepting Amex. I have always used my debit card with no problem, and now am able to use my Visa for bigger purchases.

Costco Canada accepts Mastercard. In fact they dumped AMEX for Mastercard.

Why a negotiating ploy? I doubt there is any other replacement for Walmart that accepts Visa and offers comparable level of price and range of products. Thoughts?

Huh? No major retailer can afford to stop taking Visa?

This is a good way to make people notice that at the end of the day, it's the retailer that sells you stuff, not Visa. They merely run a bunch of servers and rent-seek.

Sure, it's a negotiation ploy, but Visa has more to lose than Walmart. Walmart Visa customers will just switch over to Mastercard or American Express. Costco also doesn't take Visa, but they do take Mastercard. It's clear that Mastercard will negotiate, but Visa seems to think they're above that.

Costco has been pointed out already but there are other major retailers doing this. Loblaws discount arm "No Frills" being one example. (Loblaws is the largest food retailer in Canada with over C$30B in sales).

> No major retailer can afford to stop taking Visa.

It might surprise you to know that Costco for years only accepted AmEx (and soon will only accept Visa).

Walmart is not just a major retailer -- they are a mega retailer. They have leverage that almost nobody else has.

> This is nothing more than a negotiating ploy

What do you mean? This is like saying "The only reason you use a towel is to get dry", implying "you are a cheater". Yes, towels are to get you dry, and yes, it is "This is nothing more than a negotiating ploy". I don't get why one would use the word "ploy" here as if something cunning that few people notice or understand is happening.

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