Comment by jpt4 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jpt4 | Hacker News Reader

A few of my friends and I are working on the design of a robust, portable computing form factor. After previously consdering various of the Gigabyte Brix Pro series, we settled on the Skull Canyon as the core of the ensemble, currently composed of:

1) Intel NUC Kit NUC6i7KYK

2) 32 (2 x 16) GiB DDR4 2133MHz RAM (G.SKILL Ripjaws) 3) 512 GB M.2 NVMe SSD (Samsung 950 Pro)

4) 9.7" 2048x1536 DisplayPort Monitor (Adafruit Qualia kit)

5) 104 key mechanical keyboard w/Cherry MX Blue switches (DAS Professional)

Everything worked the first time it was plugged together, and now the system can run StarCraft II: LoTV with medium settings under Wine on Arch GNU/Linux. The next steps are to transform the output from a LiFePo4 motorcycle battery (via a DC-DC converter) to the correct voltage, furnish a case and smaller keyboard, and start testing/optimizing the setup in the field.

Edit: The 45W TDP of the NUC6i7KYK was its main advantage when compared to discretely sourcing comparable or superior components for a mini-ITX build. Even after doubling the power draw to account for a screen, speakers, and additional cooling, two kilograms of lithium should provide two hours of roaming battery life (and weight minimization is low on our priority list).

> 4) 9.7" 2048x1536 DisplayPort Monitor (Adafruit Qualia kit)

That monitor is horribly overpriced for what you get.

The LCD can be purchased in QTY 1 from AliExpress for $25 USD with free shipping to almost anywhere in the world. [1]

A guy in Japan makes a DP board which is better than the Adafruit one and which you can buy for about $40 USD shipped from Japan (3,500 JPY + 800 JPY shipping). [2]

I've bought 5 so far and they all work great. One was DOA but the seller kindly shipped me a replacement free of charge. It's also 5V powered, so you can power it directly from the computer using a USB cable, no need for an extra 9V (seriously, 9V. why?) power supply.

You can easily laser cut a stand from plywood or lexan to mount the LCD. Or, you can buy the actual iPad aluminium housing ($22 + $8 for the digitizer glass) and mount the adapter on the back.

It really bothers me that Adafruit is selling that kit for $225 when you can build one yourself for well under $100. Their profit margins must be insane.

[1] http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB...

(If the link is broken, just search AliExpress for the LP097QX1)

[2] http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&...

I've made one as well (using the iPad housing). The most difficult part is mounting the adapter on the back: The cable from the panel is somewhat short and I had to pay an extortionate price to get the right size standoffs that were short enough not to stress the cable. It would be helpful if someone published the slot location/dimensions (hint, hint).

When I started, I emailed Adafruit about selling the stand separate from the kit. They mentioned they'd take it under advisement, and that was the end of it.

I take it a CAD model of the stand parts would satisfy your hinted desire?

I am sure that most people are aware of how overpriced adafruit is. I still use them when I prototype because they test their products, their website is a fun place to visit, and they tend to support their products with tutorials. If I want 50 of something I would never use adafruit, but for individual items I am fine with supporting them.

Thanks for this info, I know Adafruit is overpriced, but had no idea where to go about doing it myself.

Why do both drivers have this warning? What would make it not work with an HDMI adapter, and is there any way to somehow use this with an HDMI output?

> Just to make sure this is very clear, this adapter will NOT work with HDMI connectors, will NOT work with HDMI to DisplayPort adapters (passive or active)

> Why do both drivers have this warning?

Because the LCD is an eDP (embedded DisplayPort) LCD, both Adafruit and Abusemark boards are only breakout boards to turn the FPC connection into a mini/DisplayPort port.

> What would make it not work with an HDMI adapter

Unlike a normal desktop monitor, which has a PCB inside with a chip that accepts a variety of inputs and drives the display in its native format (LVDS or eDP) [1], these adapters lack that. They rely on the controller inside the LP097QX1 LCD itself, which only speaks eDP because it's designed to be used in tablets which output eDP.

You cannot drive the LCD at any resolution other than 2048x1536@60Hz. The LCD doesn't support any other resolution or refresh rates.

> and is there any way to somehow use this with an HDMI output?

No.

[1] http://www.tarduino.cc/2014/10/dell-ultrasharp-24-ultra-hd-m...

I don't doubt for many products you can assemble it yourself more cheaply with the input of time. But, a price factor of 2.25 over raw parts (COGS, cost of goods sold) is pretty reasonable overhead. It's not the best margin, but it's right within reasonable for paying for assembly, inventory housing, warranty coverage, etc.

For reference: https://www.eevblog.com/2016/06/03/eevblog-887-the-economics...

I think Adafruit is pushing the limit of reasonable. The price of their products isn't terrible, but with the prices they charge I'd expect a free shipping option or something similar. Their prices are basically in line with what I would expect a retail store to charge. A mail-order warehouse has a much lower overhead per unit than a retail store. They do not need to be as well lit, the fixtures are cheaper over their lifetime, they turn over inventory much faster, products take up less space, etc.

I suspect their high prices are dictated by their New York, NY location. The location may help attract talent, but it doesn't make sense to locating the warehouse for a mail-order business in the most expensive city in the United States.

I don't want to suggest they shouldn't be located in NYC. That is their prerogative. I think the "Adafruit is way too expensive" argument is valid. They are insanely expensive, and while their documentation is fairly good, they are other companies that provide similar value at a price that is much lower than adafruit.

Yes, they/we must pay the rent for their Manhattan location...

> But, a price factor of 2.25 over raw parts (COGS, cost of goods sold) is pretty reasonable overhead.

If this were a normal commercial product, I would agree with you.

But the fact is, when you buy this Adafruit kit, you're getting the raw parts which you have to assemble, the monitor has fewer features than a normal desktop LCD monitor (only one resolution supported, only DisplayPort input) and given that it's the bare LCD, is much more fragile than a commercial monitor.

So, yes, normally it is absolutely reasonable and expected for a manufacturer to charge 2-2.5x the price of raw goods. But in this case you're literally paying Adafruit 200% to do simple supply chain logistics for you, and you're getting a pile of parts which you can buy (with free shipping!) from FleaBay/AliExpress with a few clicks of your mouse.

For this kit, you're assembling the plastic enclosure, but the electronics are pre-assembled (and I assume pre-tested), so it's not exactly a bag of parts. I'd agree that it is not a full retail product. I'd say it is a somewhat boutique, low-volume product - for that I've seen much much higher then 3x COGS.

Maybe I'm just at a low hassle tolerance from having to juggle too many past return transactions on AlieBay components and am overvaluing getting the logistics done for getting working electronics without going through the time of finding the right LCD, integrating the parts, getting it to drive correctly, etc.

Overall, I guess I'm someone whose also willing to let a bit of extra margin go to Adafruit which keeps doing interesting things. In the end, there's plenty of room for everyone to make their own price/value judgement, I certainly don't think my view should override others in this area.

> NOTE: FPC connector which attaches the panel to adapter board is VERY fragile. User must be very careful lifting up the connector tab and pushing it back into place.

There's value in not having to fiddle with such a thing. Also, there's http://dp2retina.rozsnyo.com/ which is more expensive but probably better. They also have a driver for the Retina MacBook http://dp2mbpr.rozsnyo.com/

> there's http://dp2retina.rozsnyo.com/ which is more expensive but probably better

I am aware of this one as well, but what qualities make it "better" than the Abusemark model I linked to?

It's 3 times more expensive ($35 versus $99), uses 12V input (and thus cannot be USB powered), and has an 8-bit micro (ATxmega32A4U) instead of the 32-bit micro found on the Abusemark board (STM32F103CB). They both feature dual backlight drivers, although rozsnyo isn't listing what driver chips they're using, I suspect it's the same as Abusemark.

The Abusemark firmware even provides a USB serial device in addition to firmware updates, which the rozsnyo lacks.

Thank you for posting this. I think paying $100 extra is not too much for saving yourself from the trouble of organising all of this. It is beautiful that the world has things for everyone to explore. I would certainly go DIY route, because I am interested in those things, but I also get that there are people who couldn't be bothered less about putting this thing together and just get the premium service.

Thank you very much for this detailed alternative. Echoing other commenters, I chose the Adafruit Qualia kit (not even buying the screen and driver board discrete and separate from Adafruit) as an exercise in known, commercially available components. Subsequent iterations will definitely minimize the convenience margin, so long as the resulting custom product does not suffer in functionality.

The Alibaba link is live and excellent; I was for a while considering a 14" Carbon X1 screen (2560 x 1440) [0], but the 4:3 aspect ratio of the iPad Mini ultimately won out.

Your Japanese connection is a good resource to have (and quite gloriously culturally shameless [1]).

[0] http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-14-LP140QH1-SP-A2-with-to...

[1] http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&...

Thanks for the links, but looks like the abusemark board is sold out. Is this the same product?: http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&...

I am unsure. Your link is for the STM32F303CBT6 breakout board, mine the STM32F103CBT6, but perhaps they are interchangeable.

What are you trying to do with that setup?

That's my question too.. How is this any better than my toughbook that's similarly spec'd but designed and tested for years?

In a phrase, I want to increase the density of my personal computing platforms: as small, powerful, and self-contained as feasible.

I fear I am radically out of date with the Toughbook series if they now include i7 processors and 2K resolution screens. Do you have a model in mind to which I could compare my project?

1) Replace my heavy but relatively delicate four year old Asus gaming laptop with a solid state machine that can be packed in a Pelican case and dropped down the stairs without concern.

2) Try my hand at hardware a bit below the metalshop, a bit beyond Arduino.

Thanks for the reply. I just thought that 32gb ram and linux is an odd choice for a gaming (only) machine. But the do-it-yourself side of it is something I can relate to :)

like this? http://imgur.com/a/ee2hX

If you don't mind the size, you could save a ton of travel space with a 60% mech board like the Poker. You could easily fit all of that into a backpack closed, but I don't know about the Das fitting in.

That is absolutely amazing, I love miniature computers like this! What's in it?

System76 sells mini computers with Ubunutu preinstalled. I've been using the Meerkat for quite awhile, and love it.

https://system76.com/desktops

These companies selling Ubuntu machines are still charging more for the hardware than someone else selling the same thing with Windows installed. The reason I want to buy a machine with Ubuntu installed is because I don't want to be forced to pay $99 for a MS license. But that doesn't mean I want to pay someone else $199 to install Ubuntu.

Building a machine from parts from NewEgg gets you a machine without Windows installed, without paying $99 or $199 for OS installation, doesn't take very much time or knowledge, and also helps NewEgg fight patent trolls.

On the other hand, I am happy to pay for a machine that I know will work perfectly with Ubuntu. I have neither time nor patience with broken linux installations, if a company can guarantee a set of hardware that works under Ubuntu(or any other distro) would be happy to pay for it.

It isn't 2007 anymore. More hardware works under Ubuntu out of the box than works with Windows 10.

Well, I think we're gonna need a source on that.

"We" think you should try a build and see. Windows 10 choked on an onboard NIC and a 7970 GPU on "our" most recent build.

And Ubuntu chokes for me on my GTX780 and my Intel-217V ethernet card, both of which are apparently fully supported. We can throw anecdotes all day long, but until there is some research saying otherwise, I don't believe that Ubuntu will work with more hardware without any fuss than Windows 10.

And the whole point of my post was that I don't want to waste my time to "build and see". I want to give someone money to give me something that is 100% guaranteed to work.

Okay. I guess if you can't be bothered to conduct your own research, enjoy life in the "I can't build my own machine and pay hundreds of dollars for someone else to install my operating system" lane. Also, sorry to bear awful news, but nothing is 100% guaranteed to work unless you're buying from a liar.

You can at least look at their build list and get those parts individually, that'll save some money in addition to the installation cost savings.

check out /r/sffpc

You can get actual backpack desktops now too - http://www.tomshardware.com/news/vr-backpacks-msi-zotac-chai...

I love the ncase but they sure are expensive. The Cougar QBX is a nice and cheaper alternative. It doesn't come in silver though.

Wow, I'd never seen that case but it looks really nice. Like a poor man's Ncase.

Most impressive. Yes, approximately that, running off motorcycle batteries, thus the compromise of no discrete GPU, which would (conservatively) triple the power budget.

Regarding the keyboard, on the roadmap is a hand-made "gull wing" (hinged thumb joint) split mechanical keyboard, in the style of AcidFire's design [0] but with only 44 keys total: four for each long finger, six for each thumb, 22 per hand.

[0] https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.1300

This would run faster natively on Windows rather than Wine, right?

I think maybe they included the Starcraft II reference as a way to gauge performance, not as the primary purpose of the systems.

That said, apparently Wine performance loss is quite variable and ranges from negligible to quite large, depending on drivers and what actions the program is attempting (because not all syscalls that are proxies have direct equivalents, or may be as fast, but also may be faster, etc). But I haven't used Wine in a long time.

No doubt. SCII:LotV is the most graphically intense game I run on a regular basis, and my personal performance benchmark. If it didn't work, I would lose trust in the overall capabilities of the system.

Pics? Please.

A picture of the initial set-up and first boot from USB: https://github.com/jpt4/cots/blob/master/IMG_20160522_053135...

Keep up the good werk!

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