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Comment by jshevek | Hacker News Reader

For me, it has the feeling of being more of a PR stunt than a sincere effort to help education. Plus, its an opportunity to build brand allegiance at a young age.

I would rather Apple donate an equal amount of money to any of those entities out there which help to bring technology to the youth.

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I don't see this as a PR stunt at all, this goes to one of Apple's core values. Apple's very good at marketing, if this were a PR stunt they would have large brand building ads and little substance, whereas this initiative requires a lot of resources, logistics and investments to run and are offering it for free.

Since Tim took over Apple's been doing a lot more towards "We want to leave the world better than we found it". Eventually I expect it will be good for Apple's bottom line long-term, but this follows their theme (e.g. Swift playgrounds, WWDC Scholarships) of helping teach more kids how to code. Personally I think Apple wants to attract students, because they prefer that demographic. There would be a lot more money to be made going after Enterprise wallets than spending it on free programs for cash-poor students.

Basically under Tim's leadership I'm expecting Apple to invest a lot in: Green Energy, Kids Education, Privacy, Diversity. Not because it's good for their bottom line, but because they think it's the right thing to do.

Perhaps add privacy to that list as well. Hopefully.

Updated, thx. Yeah that's definitely one of their core values.

> Not because it's good for their bottom line, but because they think it's the right thing to do.

I agree with the op but want to take this one step further.

When you're apple's size, perhaps what's good IS good for your bottom line, in the long term.

Can you really grow a company when most people are too poor to afford your products? No, you really can't.

Will apple do better if there are many more people with disposable income enough to buy more apple products? I think so.

Maybe spending money on education and fixing the environment are necessary for them if they want to keep growing. I'm not saying this to be cynical - i'm saying this because if it's true, it doesn't actually matter whether this is a dollars and cents calculation.

Going after the educational market is an ancient tactic of Apple's. If you get people using your product in schools, then when they get out into the real world and purchase their own $thing, they'll likely choose the one they're familiar with. Educational discounts for tech companies aren't really altruism - they're usually considered a loss-leader.

This happens in other arenas as well - for example, part of the reason why the religious right is so strong in the US at the moment is due to a lot of grass-roots work done in the 80s and 90s on school boards; playing the long game with the next generation. It's a tactic that was openly acknowledged in the 80s, and it's paid off for them.

While your skepticism is easily justified and I share it, I would just point out that:

> Plus, its an opportunity to build brand allegiance at a young age.

If this leads to other vendors like Microsoft, Google, etc. launching their own coding camps geared towards youth I think it's a net win and results in competition in an area which is currently under served.

I also think it's a little unrealistic to expect a corporation to just throw money at philanthropic endeavors...as nice it might be to think about/wish for.

> I also think it's a little unrealistic to expect a corporation to just throw money at philanthropic endeavors...as nice it might be to think about/wish for.

Google gave 190,000 - and possibly much more that I'm unaware of. [1]

> launching their own coding camps

I think what apple is doing right now is 'mostly harmless'. The strategy is flawed and antisocial, but the reach and impact is minimal. However, if all the major players started competing in this area, I think it could quickly became a significant net loss for our society. Established for profit tech corporations with eco-system oriented agendas are not well suited for the role of designing or choosing educational programs for our youth, their self interest is too narrow and all consuming.

[1] http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/google-donate-...

> Google gave 190,000 - and possibly much more that I'm unaware of

Also don’t forget things like the Google Summer of Code: $6k per student x 1000 students x 11 years = $66M so far.

Yes, and that raises questions for me about Google's bias in the summer of code. Obviously, apple has a massive culture of extreme bias from top to bottom.

I'd be curious to know if Google supports projects that benefit the ecosystems of competitors.

Google and Microsoft have been working together on TypeScript since Google decided on TS for Angular2, https://techcrunch.com/2015/03/05/microsoft-and-google-colla...

Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella. “We can’t leave anyone out. We’re proud to make this $75 million investment in computer science education to create new opportunities for students across the spectrum of diverse youth and help build a tech talent pipeline that will spark new innovations for the future.”

http://news.microsoft.com/2015/09/16/microsoft-expands-globa...

Microsoft already does this at their stores with YouthSpark. https://www.microsoft.com/about/philanthropies/youthspark/yo...

Seems very reminiscent of classroom iMacs in the late 90s. Not 100% altruistic but nothing to complain about.

Do you know what "those entities" do? They teach Scratch just like Apple's program.

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