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Comment by uola | Hacker News Reader

I've been eyeing Berlin for a while, but hasn't been convinced yet. That said, I feel your arguments are very generic.

You say the attitude is all wrong, but then you expect high salaries by default? I've made very good money in Europe (like 1% income before 30 good). But that was by joining the industry right after high school, so when my friends were done with with university I (and some of my other friends) had already been working 50 hour weeks for 5 years and were a partners at a consultancy company. Attitudes are "soft problems" that are great for people who are driven.

If you have more concrete arguments against Berlin I would be interested in hearing them.

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To be fair "attitude" wasn't his only argument. He cited what seem to be concrete arguments which included lower pay, higher taxes, and fewer benefits relative to the UK and US. You countered by questioning why he expects high salaries then provided your own unique experience for becoming a partner at a consultancy company.

What are the best prospects for your friends who did attend university or anyone else who didn't work 50 hour weeks for 5 years and become a partner at a consultancy company?

No, I don't think his arguments were concrete.

1. Fix the relatively low tech wages [in Europe]

You can make enough money in Europe to have enough runway to start a company. Especially if you give up working 40 hour weeks and having 6 weeks vacation.

2. Taxes [are high]

Many places in Europe have lower taxes than the US. Startups rarely feel the effects of taxes since they spend all their money on growth. To the extent they do it's just another cost.

3. The anti-startup culture [is bad]

In practical terms European welfare states are far more accepting of failure than other parts of the world.

4. Severe lack of capital

This can be a concrete problem, but most people making this statement have not saved their money and vacation time for at least year, taken leave from their job and started a company. So why should investors invest in them?

> Many places in Europe have lower taxes than the US.

If you look at taxes that both countries have that can seem true in some places, but that's because European countries tend to have VATs and the US doesn't, so the rates on the shared taxes are often lower in Europe (also, the US tends to have more tax exceptions, so that the actual tax effective tax rates are lower than the nominal rates.) The US has the third lowest overall tax burden in the OECD, with only Chile and Mexico lower.

I didn't express myself very well. What I meant is that Europe has a number of low tax jurisdictions where you can move if you really want low tax, but few of these are particularly popular (for domestic companies).

I didn't see in his post where he wanted a startup. He didn't seem to say anything about anti-startup culture or lack of capital. He didn't seem to be worried about just wanting to make enough runway to start a company. He also appeared to be comparing the U.K to Berlin. He wasn't looking at other places in Europe that had lower taxes, just Berlin.

It was in the link at the end if his comment.

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