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Comment by jmspring | Hacker News Reader

I've heard about this incident first hand from old timers out in DV, having gone for years myself.

The warning at the start of the piece, maybe merited, feels a bit over the top.

The story itself is quite intriguing.

The warning is not over the top at all to anyone with any experience of the Nevada deserts. You want to be prepared and fit. The extreme heat will tire you out and raise your need for water. See the multiple gallons of water they carried in for just a couple of days? Many people have no clue that hill walking in moderate climates is much uch easier compared with the desert in terms of stamina.

Even in the Central Valley in California, it routinely gets into the high 100s for a few months in the summer. Having lived most of my life there, and knowing how debilitating that level of heat is, I can't imagine what drives people to think they can hike around in 20 degrees (F) warmer weather without carrying a gallon of water for the afternoon.

... Aside: I seem to remember seeing something about the Arabian Peninsula soon becoming so warm you cannot maintain core body temperature by evaporation of your sweat, at which point it will be uninhabitable outside of modern buildings with A/C ...

Then again, if you live in a coastal area where the temperature is usually between 50 to 80 F, an 8 mile hike in the hills sounds like a pleasant activity to take on after lunch :-)

> Aside: I seem to remember seeing something about the Arabian Peninsula soon becoming so warm you cannot maintain core body temperature by evaporation of your sweat, at which point it will be uninhabitable outside of modern buildings with A/C ...

No source on this, but I remember reading somewhere that in the hottest conditions recorded (Persian Gulf heat + humidity), the humidity would actually condense on a human like a cold water bottle on a hot day.

Great, so you get to absorb the heat of vaporization from how ever many moles of water that is per hour.

Reading through the story, I had heard most of it while in the desert a few years ago. The writer's style generally rubs me the wrong way on multiple fronts.

It's an interesting story and case, but I can't get over the "style" of the presentation.

I was not a huge fan of the style either, but it does a fairly good job of keeping the reader interested. That said, the amount of digs he takes at various local and federal agencies is really unnecessary.

I dunno, I think he earned the right to criticize them. It was fairly mild, considering the effort he put into it compared to them. And he was complimentary to them overall. He didn't even launch into what would probably be an epic rant if he were to provide all the details, but rather stopped himself.

Apparently he has gotten the "style" feedback enough that he felt it necessary to put a full disclaimer at the head of the article.

I think the effort he put in is pretty hard to justify objectively. He can do what he likes with his time, but it doesn't mean the various agencies deserve criticism for doing less.

It wasn't doing less. It was not sharing helpful information with someone who'd earned rights to it through assistance, and dismissing very well-founded advice and input.

That said, it's very harsh territory, and local government has very few resources.

He comes across as very earnest; that might be misread by some people as obsessive. He also did do some very questionable things like remove the day planner and other items. It could be that law enforcement didn't really want to work with him any more than they had to. It's hard to know, we don't get to see that side.

I really enjoyed his account. I've spent a lot of time doing field work in the Mojave (I am a plant taxonomist), and it's such a neat place to explore -- at least in spring time, before it gets too hot.

Uncovering human remains after 8 years in the desert of foreign nationals, hours from the nearest signs of civilisation, at risk of one's own life, and wanting to demonstrate to others that the claim is substantiated: removing an item that provides solid proof strikes me as grounded.

The author clearly deliberated over, and fairly considered the merits, of removing other items.

Consider too: finding something once in the desert does not mean you're likely to find it again. Animals, weather, rains (rare, but often overwhelming), or other humans could further disturb the scene, or you could simply lose track of where the item had been (even with GPS) or be distracted by false hits (the reflective surfaces which turned out to be rocks).

Particularly after discovery of the remains had been reported and multiple parties were aware, with information being leaked out.

I find nothing malicious, and nothing reproachable, in his account. Though note that this is his account, there may be another side.

In addition, the police lost/damaged some evidence apparently, like the note written in German that was folded.

I was left wondering whether the sheriff simply claimed to have found some of the kids' bones or they actually did find them and didn't want to tell the author any real details.

I think there's probably a strong motivation for the sheriff's office to close the case, especially after so many years and so many resources expended. On top of that, there was probably some desire for them to make the author go away. Law enforcement officers have to protect the perception that they are both competent and caring, and this "enthusiast" proved to be better on both counts in this case. So either there's jealousy that makes them not give him the information that would have satisfied his curiosity (and spared him a couple more trips to the desert), or they just told him they found more bones when they actually hadn't to make him stop looking.

Either way, I think they owed him more than that for solving their cold case, but couldn't stand to do that because now people like me say things like "he solved their cold case."

Edit: Keep in mind this is the same office that had the responsibility to find all the bodies Charles Manson and gang buried out by the Barker Ranch, and didn't. I get that they have limited resources, so not blaming them, but it probably stings when this guy finished the job they started.

The items have been there for the past eight years. They will last another few days until authorities can come back and work the area. He had a camera to document the find, and survey flags to mark the items. There was no reason to take these things, especially as a enthusiast with no permission from the NPS to do what he was doing and no official involvement in any kind of search. Even if he was in the right, it likely did piss off NPS staff and law enforcement.

As far as "risk of one's life," that seems a little over the top to me. Yes, it's the desert, and yes, it's remote, but people do go hiking and backpacking in Anvil Canyon, there is a cabin with water 4 miles away, and he had a SPOT (at least his partner did) to signal for help in case he got in trouble. The most dangerous thing he did was probably the speeding on the rush back to Furnace Creek. Single vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death in Death Valley.

I think this is one of those cases where initiative and begging for forgiveness paid off.

It did seem like he was doing it to satisfy his own curiosity more than anything though. Be interesting to know what the family thought of his write up if anything.

Yes, and it really is an excellent write-up. It captures the flavor of the Mojave, even if there are some things he could have done differently.

I'm curious about what rubs you wrong.

The writing is good, clear, intelligent, informed, and captures the sense of the place and people -- I've spent some time there myself.

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