Hacker News Reader

Comment by orf | Hacker News Reader

> For UK of course it's even worse, they're actively known for the bad taste and cuisine.

As someone from the UK I take offense at that, sure we might not be on the same level as Italy or France (but really, who is?) but we have some great traditional food. Pies of all kinds, fish 'n' chips, traditional sausages, good old roast dinners, chicken tikka masala and of course the healthiest breakfast in the world. Tasty stuff. And lets not forget our mayonnaise and ketchup beats all others, hands down.

View on HN

>Pies of all kinds, fish 'n' chips, traditional sausages, good old roast dinners, chicken tikka masala

Sort of makes my point. None of these have anybody (of statistically significant percentage) outside the UK salivating, or have ever created something like a "British restaurant" to be found abroad (like there are French or Italian restaurants everywhere).

And even the best of this list was invented by taking from a foreign (the Bangladeshi) cuisine tradition.

>and of course the healthiest breakfast in the world

Bacon, sausages, eggs, and beans? I think nutritionists can point to at least 20 other candidate countries for that title...

whooooooooooooosh

> None of these have anybody (of statistically significant percentage) outside the UK salivating

Have you ever tried a traditional English pie? I'm a bit biased obviously, but as an anecdote my Italian co-worker who moved here recently absolutely loves them (and I can't help but say 'who ate all the pies, guido?' to him). They don't have that kind of pastry in their cuisine at all and he can't get enough of them. It's a national cuisine, just because not a huge number of people outside the UK eat it doesn't make it bad in any way.

> or have ever created something like a "British restaurant" to be found abroad

You're right, cuisine isn't our major cultural export (I'd say that's TV) but it's hard to find authentic national food outside of the respective nation. Most Italians would cry at the sight of most of the "Italian food" served at "Italian restaurants", just because it's not a label you can stick on your restaurant doesn't mean it's bad...

> Bacon, sausages, eggs, and beans? I think nutritionists can point to at least 20 other candidate countries for that title...

You forgot the hash browns, black pudding and toast, all in huge quantities. Also that went way over your head, it's possibly the most unhealthy breakfast in the world when done right.

You know, I just realized that I really miss pasties after a night out when I don't have them around. And let's not forget that English cheese can be spectacular!

Certainly there are great foods to be had, but on the whole it seems it's not the UK's strong suit.

> They don't have that kind of pastry in their cuisine at all and he can't get enough of them.

Well, Italians have pastry in their cuisine — but they boil it and call it pasta grin

What do you consider to be a traditional English pie? I need to make sure I have one of these.

Steak and Ale, Steak and Kidney, Chicken and Mushroom, Pheasant and other game (that's not as common though). If you want a great one then make sure it's from a small, non-chain pub somewhere in the countryside for the full English experience.

Pork Pies are pies as well I guess, but they are a different beast and as nice (no gravy, solid filling) unless you get an amazing melton mowbray one.

"You're right, cuisine isn't our major cultural export (I'd say that's TV)"

Probably cultural products more generally, including books and music.

Wouldn't an English pie be similar to something like "torta pasqualina"?

It's not usual to see a pie with meat in Italy, usually its filling it's all vegetables/eggs, seldom some ham. There are plenty though.

> Wouldn't an English pie be similar to something like "torta pasqualina"?

Nope, nothing like that, I think. English pies use thicker pastry, are filled with gravy and never anything green. Something like this[1] gives you an idea. Perhaps it's the sort of equivalent, but the Italian I work with says there is nothing like them that he's ever had in Italy.

1. http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/3148692/dads-beef-mushroo...

If I search "traditional English pie" I see images of something more similar to what I suggested than the image you linked.

I'm in the U.S., so the search results might be affected by my location.

edit: I tried on google.co.uk and I get more results similar to what you suggested.

Yeah I think that's google trickery. How strange though, I would have thought the search "traditional English pie" shouldn't/wouldn't be affected by the location.

If you search "Carbonara" in the U.S. you get something with cream, peas and garlic.

So, it's definitely affected. :)

Maybe not restaurants per se, but there's quite a few British pubs around here that do serve some variety of British cuisine (usually fish n chips / pot pies / etc.)

I will also add that traditional British ales played a pretty huge role in fueling the underpinnings of the American homebrewing / craft brewing movements. Of course, us Americans transformed it entirely in a different direction from the British CAMRA "real ale" world. :) But some of the most popular American craft brew style clearly have clear British lineage: IPAs / pale ales, porters, and stouts.

> Sort of makes my point. None of these have anybody (of statistically significant percentage) outside the UK salivating, or have ever created something like a "British restaurant" to be found abroad (like there are French or Italian restaurants everywhere).

British-style pubs that serve those exact dishes are very popular in Canada.

I mean, I don't think there's room to argue the "actively known for" claim. British food is absolutely known for being bland, fatty, and overcooked (at least in America); it's even the punchline in that "in hell the cooks are British" joke.

As for whether its true, that's a much harder sell. I can buy that Britain has quite a bit of bad food; 'British' mass-market food can be a bit shoddy, since it tends to be traditional dishes like fish'n'chips and pies that respond terribly to low-quality ingredients and lengthy storage. The restaurant stuff is much better, but it can certainly seem rich and heavy to those unfamiliar (partly because it's special-occasion food being served every night).

But to sincerely claim that the Brits don't have good food is a bit absurd. It seems to be born of either ignorance or ahistoricism. People know "fatty pies", but not cullen skink or any of the other more specialized delicacies, and they seem to have gotten their sense of what's available in around 1945, which was understandably not a high point in British cuisine.

In 2000 I spent a couple of weeks in the Shrewsbury area, and most lunches were had at small, out of the way village pubs. The food was surprisingly good, both traditional and continental. Not just surprisingly good for England, but for anywhere in such venues. The only bad experience was our first shot at getting fish & chips, which were rubbish. Second try at a different place fixed that.

> and most lunches were had at small, out of the way village pubs

These are the best places to go in England IMO. Avoid any chain pubs at all costs, the smaller local ones serve the best food in the countryside hands down.

I remember ordering garlic chips for the first time after moving from CA.

I had been foolishly looking forward to a meal of fried potatoes, olive oil, Parmesan, salt, and lightly seared diced garlic, with perhaps a bit of parsley (or, dare I dream, cilantro/coriander). I thought it might bring back memories of nights spent at Giants games

What I got was chips with a gigantic blob of sightly garlic-scented mayonnaise plopped on top of it. Disappointing, to say the least.

To be fair, there is some fantastic food, but you have to look for it. Dublin has some surprisingly good burritos, for instance. I think the issue comes from the fact that inexpensive street food in places like Italy is phenomenal, but in Ireland and the UK tends to be mediocre.

>To be fair, there is some fantastic food, but you have to look for it. Dublin has some surprisingly good burritos, for instance.

That's hardly what one means when talking about a good national cuisine though... The UK also has excellent Indian restaurants, but that's again something else.

Were we limiting this to national cuisines? What is that, even? When people ask about my favourite American (they mean US but that's another conversation) food I typically answer Mexican or Ethiopian, because those are some of the best foods I've had in the US.

> I remember ordering garlic chips...

That's your first mistake. You can get all that, but it's not exactly English. You'd have better luck with getting all that on roast potatoes to be honest.

> I think the issue comes from the fact that inexpensive street food in places like Italy is phenomenal, but in Ireland and the UK tends to be mediocre.

I agree, but then again we don't really have a street food culture like those places. London has got pretty into the street food idea, and there are tonnes of really nice food markets springing up everywhere. Pretty damn expensive, but nice once in a while.

I know it was my mistake, and I don't even mean it as a complaint but rather as an observation.

For what it's worth, I've gotten really in to cooking since living here. I make my own Doro Wat and tequila lime chicken in particular.

In general, foods here don't usually have a lot of nuanced flavours. There are exceptions, and I love a hearty uncomplicated meal as much as the next person, but I do miss it. Admittedly I may have been spoiled when I was in CA, where I lived (San Diego and SF) both seem to have pretty great food.

I came across a great article from 1946 by George Orwell, where he both explains the problems of British food, and comes to its defence: http://theorwellprize.co.uk/george-orwell/by-orwell/essays-a...

I think I blame the British connection for some of the issues with American food: overly sweet, fish without bones, little seafood, etc.

A summary of the problems of British food from 1986 would no longer be applicable. One from 1946, even less so.

True enough — but it explains where British food got its bad reputation from. As it happens, real British food is delicious: savoury, flavourful and just generally wonderful.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com