Comment by donretag | Hacker News Reader

Comment by donretag | Hacker News Reader

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I must mention that I did not go to Kenya or other neighboring countries. I started my trip in Uganda and worked my way down.

The difference between Rwanda and Uganda/Tanzania as an outsider is immense. The roads are in good condition and there are no speed bumps because the drivers are not reckless. Bodaboda drivers will give you helmets! (granted, they probably are so old that offer no protection). Little trash on the streets. Uganda/Tanzania are filthy filthy countries.

I briefly mentioned that genocide and only because of the context of economics. Rwanda derives a fair amount of money from the UN and other international grants post-genocide. I met a fair amount of volunteers because of these programs. I found that the current government has down a decent amount to recognize the genocide. There are memorials at most mass burial cites. The genocide museum is very well done. It is not the Rwanda genocide museum, but simply a genocide museum. It covers all the genocides in recent history. Ultimately, there was little to do in Rwanda (a 4 hour nature hike was $50!), so I left after 6-7 days. Spent most of it relaxing by Lake Kivu.

> Uganda/Tanzania are filthy filthy countries.

I have grown up in Dar es salaam, Tanzania and have travelled a lot in the East African countries and I am quite surprised by that statement.

I am guessing it had more to do with the areas you went to/lived in. There are definitely filthy places and slum areas but there is also the good parts of town with good roads in Dar / Arusha and other cities. In that sense, even San Francisco and other cities that I have lived in in the US have filthy areas. Of course, it's more pronounced in these African countries but I wouldn't associate these countries with filthiness.

If it's the villages and small towns you were referring to, I think these are more or less similar in the way they are all across the area.

On a side note, I have recently been visiting Kenya more often (my dad works in Nairobi) and I would recommend anyone planning a trip to this side of the continent to consider Kenya + Tanzania trip(Masai mara + Serengeti, Ngorongoro). Especially if you're a nature and wildlife lover. It will change your life.

Cleanliness had a different meaning over there. Everyone's house and place of business was very clean. Spotless. However, they would simply sweep up everything and put it out on the street. As long as it was not in there house, it was fine. Bizarre. Food wrappers everywhere. Empty bags of 100ml alcohol (Konyagi, etc) everywhere. I traveled by public means and the view of the roads did not leave of good impression. Do not get me wrong, I still had an amazing time. Even gorgeous Zanzibar had piles of garbage if you did not stay at a resort.

I spent very little time in Dar. It basically was the gateway to Zanzibar. Because of its reputation for crime and not wanting to be in cities but in nature, we only spent two nights there. As a music lover, I really wanted to visit places such as the ones described here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/23/travel/where-tanzania-taps... I was there at the wrong time (Sunday nights) and the venues were far from my hotel. Would have loved to go if I knew someone.

I had better safaris elsewhere, but Ngorongoro itself is magical.

>they would simply sweep up everything and put it out on the street

Yes, this has been my experience. It is simply hilarious.

>Konyagi

Yeah, ain't that a sight. By "bags" you surely meant plastic bottles, no?

Bags, definitely bags: http://i.imgur.com/W1hL4Tx.jpg

I only saw them in East Africa. The streets were littered with them. Very cheap and poor tasting. Basically ethanol and flavoring. Konyagi & juice. Disgusting, but I wish I was back on the beaches of Zanibar having a few.

I remember the very first time that I saw those bags. Some young guys fished a bag each out of their pockets, squeezed whatever was in them right into their mouths, and let this horrendous cry for help (at least that is how I saw it; that stuff surely 'looked' bitter). I have had the chance to taste that stuff and I must say, poor tasting indeed.

>The difference between Rwanda and Uganda/Tanzania

I have had little opportunity to travel to other countries myself, but I imagine that infrastructure quality is something that sticks out almost immediately. If you do come to Kenya (Nairobi in particular), the 20 km journey from the airport to the city center peels away a lot about the country: the notoriously in-your-face drivers, the defiantly corrupt traffic police officers, and the unforgettably poignant stenches (along certain stretches of the road) to say nothing of the potholes.

>Little trash on the streets. Uganda/Tanzania are filthy filthy countries

I have heard people express the same sentiment about Rwanda and frankly, yet I cannot bring myself to picture it. You see, there is a lot of filth in Nairobi, so much so that the government spends millions (of shillings) trying to re-educate people. But things used to be a lot, lot worse. Up until 15 years ago, Nairobi's central business district was unimaginably littered, men urinated when and as they liked/pleased, street urchins filled the back alleys (with both their excrement and presence), and nobody seemed to care. A lot of these things still happen to this day. But it is in the 'suburbs' that things are really out of hand. Recently, Madonna shared a picture that, in essence, summarizes the state of Kenya's 'suburbia' [https://www.instagram.com/p/BHZ6gW6h-95/?taken-by=madonna]. That picture is not an outlier, and I can personally confirm that this is the case in many places, including places that I frequent regularly. Kenya too has many such filthy places. This is not an elitist view, just the sad truth.

>genocide museum

I do not know how I would react in such a place. I abhor violence and would probably come away from the experience deeply traumatized. It is a complete shock that humanity is capable of such heinous crimes. What is even more shocking is that these sort of crimes never stop: every human generation has lived through similar genocidal events: Genocides in history [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history]; Genocide of indigenous peoples [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples... Category:Lists of massacres by country [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lists_of_massacres_by... List of events named massacres [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_events_named_massacres].

>Ultimately, there was little to do in Rwanda

Aha, the hype is busted! Just kidding. Planning to take a trip later this or next year so I am going to have to find something to do, won't I.

PS: Any key take-aways: spots, activities, food?

Tourist activities were expensive. The gorilla viewing was $750, much higher than in Uganda or the DRC (the section of the DRC with the gorillas is definitely not recommended going to). In Kigali, locations regarding the genocide are a must see (museum, UN base). Not that Rwanda was boring, but I just enjoyed other countries better. Lake Kivu was nice, but Lake Malawi was incredible. Malawi is in undiscovered gem.

>Malawi is in undiscovered gem

I have heard similar things said about the country. During the 2010 Football/Soccer World Cup held in South Africa, a number of Kenyans (and expatriates) took several road-trips and came back with news of just how cool some of those places were. Malawi was always mentioned as this 'virgin' and exotic hinterland- and this coming from fellow Africans. But $750 for Gorilla viewing is maybe a little pricey. Here in Kenya, the Giraffe Manor charges upwards of $500/12-hour stay for the boarding experience and the intimate interaction with on-site Rothchild giraffes [1]. Of course, these prices are way beyond what the average Kenyan [2; 3] could afford and I suspect the $750 asking price for gorilla tours in Rwanda is equally limiting for residents there. Although prices are usually lower for natives/residents/citizens compared to tourists, most of the former rarely get to enjoy their own natural heritage and history (parks, historical sites, etc.). For instance, park entry fees at the famous Kenyan Maasai Mara National Reserve is $10 for citizens and $70 for non-residents. Add that to a $4 charge for vehicles and $100 for campsite reservation [4], the logic of going for such a trip quickly crumbles. Furthermore, this is in a country where the average hourly income (for those that are employed) is about a dollar. That said, the novelty of seeing animals in the wild can be lost to people that live near these parks: where is the point of paying to see an elephant when they routinely savage your farms and drink your alcohol [5; 6]. [1] http://www.thesafaricollection.com/properties/giraffe-manor/ [2] Here is a fairly accurate picture of what it costs to live in Nairobi: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country... [3] Here is an equally accurate estimate of minimum wages across Kenya: http://www.wageindicator.org/main/salary/minimum-wage/kenya [4] http://www.maasaimara.com/entries/park-fees-2 *USD 1= Kshs. 100 [5] http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Sh18-4m-released-for-animal-att... [6] http://www.livescience.com/24678-is-every-single-elephant-a-...

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