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Comment by timv | Hacker News Reader

I think the suggested comment It’s perfect. Great work! Let’s ship it. has its own set of issues.

Firstly, while the conversation started with "I'm looking for input", the manager has suddenly moved it into a push for delivery.

If the design was ready to ship, then that won't be an issue, but if all you're looking at is a mockup, or a slapped together stylesheet, etc, then what was an attempt an encouragement has just lumped more pressure on.

Also, the comment assumes that the designer thinks it's "done". The request for input could mean "this is the direction I'm going in, does that look right". Telling them that you think it's "ready to ship" still takes ownership from them. You've just moved from being the boss who provides 2 cents on everything to the boss that wants everything to be done right now without taking the time to do it right.

Much better to say "I think it's fantastic. Great work! Is it ready to ship, or do you have more to do on it?"

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I think your subtle focus on the semantics of the reply highlight a common block to agile feedback loops, small batches and generally getting things done. Sorry if that's harsh but you either missed the point of the article entirely or just overlooked it, the latter possibly being worse.

The primary point IMO is "don't squash ownership" because the cost of doing so is often not fully realised. The secondary point is "don't sweat the details". You've kinda proven you don't get this yet.

> I think your subtle focus on the semantics of the reply highlight a common block to agile feedback loops, small batches and generally getting things done. The primary point IMO is "don't squash ownership" because the cost of doing so is often not fully realised.

^^^ Here's your comment without the pointless condescending remarks. Notice the difference?

I think Sivers can make the distinction between commenting on some draft wirh feedback welcome and a demo of some feature about to be released.

I'm sure he can, but he didn't write this post in order to inform himself, he wrote it for others to read and learn from.

My personal & anecdotal experience has been that there are just as many managers who fail to engage well with draft-work as there are those who want to chip in their 2 cents on everything. There is definitely a class of managers who think they're offering encouragement but are so focused on the end goal that they fail to show respect for what has been achieved so far.

Of the two, I prefer those who offer unnecessary input to those whose only response is something them amounts to "is it ready yet?"

I would hate to see people read this advice and move from the first group to the second group without realising that they've traded one set of problems for another. I am quite confident that that is not Sivers' intent, but I think it is absolutely a gap in his post.

Or, to put what you just said another way: when evaluating advice, you should assume it's going to be interpreted by incompetents. Competent people filter advice they hear through their learned intuition, which turns most advice, good or bad, into good advice. Incompetent people, meanwhile, will at best apply your advice exactly as written. The only real point in advice, then, is helping incompetent people.

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