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Exactly this, to be honest. I use Lyft whenever Uber is too far away, but always prefer Uber given the choice primarily for this reason. (That, and Uber has a superior airport pickup UI, last I checked.)

It's not about money; it's just a UX thing. I don't like having to remember to go back into the app after the fact to pay more to not look like a jerk. I'd rather Lyft just raise their rates by 15% and kill the option to tip, or at least give me an opt-in setting to auto-tip (and factor the auto-tip into fare estimates).

"I don't like having to remember to go back into the app after the fact to pay more to not look like a jerk"

But you don't. The driver doesn't see that you tipped or not.

As opposed to saying drivers are already getting tipped despite the fact that there's no percentage of the fare that's set aside and preserved from Uber's cut ie they're not being tipped?

I am against tipping as a practice in general. Tipping or not tipping results in preferential treatment, subtle attitude changes, depending on the amount tipped and so on. It's more about the social discomfort I have around tipping, rather than the money itself.

That's why you tip at the end?

Does not work with repeat visits. May not be a big issue for Lyft, but it is for frequently visited restaurants and other places.

Okay well obviously that's the case. That's the bargaining chip that you have available.

The expectation is that you get good service and pay for it in the amount of roughly 15-20% of your actual bill of sale.

If you do not get good service, the bargaining chip available to you is to tip less and stop coming in.

If you do get good service and you choose to tip less then you're the one not holding up your side of the bargain. The bargaining chip available to them is to give you worse service so you stop coming in.

Tipping is not a good solution, but you honestly just sound like a cheapskate. Obviously there are repercussions for not abiding by standard transaction practice.

Customer service in restaurants seems pretty good in Australia, and there's universally no tipping here.

Which is obviously not at all relevant to the topic at hand. I don't think tipping should exist as a whole. However, it does exist in the US. Therefore, if you attempt to opt out, i.e. be a cheapskate, then expect there to be repercussions.

And that's why you should frequent business who forbid tipping in the first place, so you don't have to opt out after the transaction.

I couldn't name a single place off the top of my head that forbids tipping.

See https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/15/the-end-of-t...

Eg Uber removes the expectations of tipping---without outright banning it. (The removed expectation was what I was actually talking about. I was sloppy when I wrote 'forbid'.)

Yes and they do so by deceiving their users and their drivers. Not sure why you think this is a good thing.

I hate tipping. I am happy to stick to a deal we agreed to up front. Uber offers that model. As long as Uber doesn't force the drivers to work for them, I don't care too much what deal they accept from Uber.

Most drivers seem to work with multiple apps. Uber probably paints working as a driver in the most glorious light possible---so you can call that deception, but it's not too different from any other job, and easy enough to leave. I don't see how they are deceiving the users though? I get a ride and pay roughly what the fare estimate says.

(The drivers are sure worse off than me. After all I work in tech, and they are driving cars. But my discretionary charitable budget goes towards more efficient approaches towards relieving human suffering, than helping people in first world countries.)

For the record, I think Uber's management are mostly jerks. But as a service provider they undercut regular Sydney cabs by around 50% and provide better value. By comparison, in Singapore regular cabs are mostly alright, so there Uber isn't nearly as appealing for me.

"you honestly just sound like a cheapskate". Ad-hominem? Well, well, anyways :)

I never said I don't play by whatever practices each country has around tipping. I just don't like it.

Exactly.

Of course drivers like Lyft. Lyft extorts tips from users and hence drivers get more money.

It's also precisely why Lyft will never win: tipping is customer hostile. I don't want to tip and will never use Lyft if Uber is an option.

Will you be fine with higher Uber costs when drivers defect to the platform where they can earn more through base + tips?

Yes. It's not about the money.

If supply & demand intersect at a price which is even 20% higher than it currently is, that would be fine by me. What I hate is the mental gymnastics of tipping, the lengths which Lyft drivers go to to extort tips from you, and the clear potential for discrimination which a tipping culture creates.

What lengths do they go to?

I haven't used Lyft much, but the times I have drivers have pointedly recommended how much of a tip to give and even handed me a card with suggested tip percentages on it. A lot of them parrot the Lyft line that "tipping is always optional and always appreciated."