Comment by contingencies | Hacker News Reader

Comment by contingencies | Hacker News Reader

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Bangkok is much cheaper and has more variety than Singapore. It has real communities from different parts of the region and the world who maintain their culture, run their own schools, and speak their own languages... not some kind of silly-Singlish with cheapened versions of iconic dishes of everywhere, like this Michelin stared foodstall selling soy sauce meat. The ignorance of western culinary practitioners to mainland Chinese cuisine is really staggering.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Michelin star reviewers they used here were those "considers-self-Chinese, can't-even-properly-speak-Mandarin" Singaporeans with some kind of half western/half-Singapore restauranteur career and a Cantonese family.

The first time I went to China, 15 years ago, I flew through Singapore. "Eat well here, the food in China is terrible!" my ultra-rich Chinese-Singaporean friends told me. Still in China now, and I've since been back to Singapore: how wrong they were!

I just founded a mainland Chinese food-related startup...

Bangkok more diverse than Singapore? That doesn't really ring true.

That and the fact that Singaporean students are required to study their mother language in addition to English.

Also—aren't most Chinese-Singaporeans of Hokkien or Cantonese ancestry? Their forbears likely didn't speak Mandarin. For that matter, Hokkien was the dominant Chinese dialect in Singapore until relatively recently.

I don't know what is the obsession of westerners with Cantonese. There are several chinese languages spoken in Singapore. The most widely spoken is Hokkien (~50% in singapore) followed by the Teochew language (~25% of chinese in singapore). Cantonese is spoken by much fewer people in Singapore as well as in mainland China.

in the US the chinatowns (used to be) largely populated by toisanese emigrants. it is now mostly HK/China prestige yue and mandarin speakers, but the traditional image of the american Chinatown is seiyap.

It's due to the fact that Cantonese is the main language that Westerners will encounter if they ever visit their local Chinatown.

Singapore is actually unusual compared to other diaspora communities in that most of the emigrants were from Fujian province, not Canton.

Don't think that's true. I'm in southeast asia and the largest chinese language groups in the following countries are:

Singapore: Hokkien

Indonesia: Teochew

Philippines: Hokkien

Malaysia: Hokkien (although cantonese popular there)

Thailand: Teochew

Teochew and Hokkien are actually part of the min-nan dialect group which also includes Taiwanese.

That's fair, but anything outside of SE Asia is predominantly Cantonese, hence why Westerners are familiar with it.

There's also the fact that the HK film industry was fairly dominant for a couple of decades--if a Westerner saw a Chinese-language film before the 90s, it almost certainly had Cantonese in it.

Bangkok more diverse than Singapore? That doesn't really ring true.

It does, when you consider that there are real communities of diverse groups, each of whom have restaurants. Just last visit (one week, about a week ago) I personally ate at authentic Tamil muslim, Sikh (temple), Karnataka, Burmese, Korean, Lebanese, Yemeni, Italian, French, Sichuan, Thai Muslim, Thai and Thai vegetarian restaurants.

That doesn't touch on Nepali, Yunnanese, Khmer, Vietnamese, Malay, Japanese, Indonesian, Philippino, African, or other Chinese or western cuisine. For sure there are many more Middle Eastern places too, Russian and eastern European, plenty of Australian, US and Canadian places, as well as South American, etc. I've eaten Iranian before there too.

Nor does it touch on the significant local cuisine of the city (some of which is Chinese-derived), or specific regional cuisine from other parts of Thailand, virtually all of which can be found in Bangkok and virtually none of which can be found intact in Singapore.

> considers-self-Chinese, can't-even-properly-speak-Mandarin

i don't think true ethnic chinese speak mandarin. that language is something that was only recently (in the grand span of chinese history) imposed upon the rest of china by a bunch of mandarins in Peking.

in fact if you look at the chinese diaspora in overseas chinatowns, the predominant language might be something like cantonese. these people have avoided the homogenization that is taking place in their ancestral villages. in the straits settlements, various (mutually intelligible) subdialects of hokkien are the predominant languages among the ethnic chinese, but standardization in mother tongue education among these countries are eroding this uniqueness.

> It wouldn't surprise me if the Michelin star reviewers they used here were

also, the michelin guide does not use local reviewers in the first (or more) years of a guide starting up at a new city.

Yes, what you say is true, which is the point: these people are multi-generational isolates. Therefore, from a mainland Chinese perspective, they are considered less Chinese, and their tastes (culinary or otherwise) unrepresentative.

It's like, if you had an Italian grandfather you never met, never having visited Italy and literally unable to speak any Italian, you visit Sicily once on holiday, pick up a few words, return to the US, and open a Sicilian food truck declaring it 'traditional' and yourself 'true ethnic Sicilian', serving only one type of pasta.

I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with the "mainland Chinese perspective". The Michelin star wasn't awarded for pure-bloodedness.

Also, try telling the Taiwanese that they're "less Chinese" because they don't write simplified script.

Ok, so if I go to Sichuan and eat Sichuanese food which is widely different from the food in Beijing or Shanghai which one is the correct "mainland Chinese" food? It's rather difficult to call any food traditional mainland Chinese food when there's so much differences between regions even.

And on your comment on language, go to Sichuan and then tell me if the chef in a food stall speaks decent Mandarin? What about people in Xinjiang? or people in Wenzhou?

Of course, educated professionals tend to speak relatively good Mandarin (they have to) but don't tell me that the Mandarin of people working in food stalls in the country side is any better than the Mandarin of people working in food stalls in Singapore.

People in Singapore are mostly Hokkien, Teo Chew and Cantonese, they claim to be oversea Chinese but definitely do not claim to be Mainland Chinese but, they've kept a big part of the Chinese culture and customs from their regions (and yes, the food in Chaozhou is much more similar to Teo Chew food in Singapore than to food in Shanghai or most regions in China).

I think you're just unfairly biased against Singapore for various reasons and don't want to admit it...

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