Comment by phd514 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by phd514 | Hacker News Reader

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The sentiment that education can solve a lot of societal problems is a popular one, especially on HN, but it presumes that people's outlook and worldview are primarily or at least substantially influenced by "facts" and introduction to a sufficient number of such facts will result in the adoption of a better worldview for whatever definition of "better" you prefer. In reality, people are much more influenced by those with whom they associate whether those links be tribal, familial, political, etc. Each of those groups has a narrative for how the world works and facts that challenge that narrative are downplayed or ignored while facts that support that narrative are promoted. There are those whose associations change dramatically as a result of confronting facts that challenged the narrative of their group, often combined with some sort of personal crisis, but they are among the minority. Most of us go through our lives without seriously challenging the basic narrative of our associates and increasing our exposure to facts isn't going to change that.

That's because part of education is learning to think critically, which specifically means learning to overcome those biases you mention. You say "in reality" as if those supporting education are't aware of human nature, but it's precisely because they are aware that they want people to be better educated, it helps overcome the petty tribalism inherent to the uneducated.

You're incorrect about what it presumes; valuing facts is something most people need to be taught. That's why there's always a push for education, otherwise you end up with Trumpism.

The "petty tribalism inherent to the uneducated"? As if the salary class – highly-educated left-learning professionals – doesn't have it's own tribal affiliations, it's own status markers, its own inconvenient facts that it excludes for the sake of a higher narrative?

Are we now disputing that ignorance is a bad thing, really? Do you think society is better off with more uneducated people? Racism, bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, etc are all symptoms of ignorance; those are petty tribalisms. Ignorance isn't something to defend, but to strive to eliminate.

When did I dispute ignorance is a bad thing? I'm just saying that the first stop in fighting ignorance is looking at yourself? What inconvenient facts do you refuse to accept? Where do you apply standards unevenly? Where are you showing confirmation bias?

Telling people from another tribe that they are ignorant has never changed anything.

You're have a point, though if we can reduce the amount of people that are clueless about important facts, that will also reduce the pool of new recruits into their ideologies. This is not a cure for vocal minorities spreading dangerous lies, but the more people know and understand the truth, the less there will be who are, for lack of a better word, gullible in certain topics.

I think societal unrest doesn't necessarily come from lack of education, but from the perceived feeling that parts of society are disenfranchised, a feeling of powerlessness, of being against a "corrupt system" that does not have their best interest at heart. It's the lack of social mobility, or perceived lack of social mobility that causes unrest.

I was talking about extremist leaders recruiting people, and your point is true. With better education those who are oppressed are actually more likely to take notice and "rebel". I wrote in a sibling comment that everyone should be better educated, including oppressors, thereby ideally making them realize that it's a short-term game they're playing, for example.

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