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Comment by BooneJS | Hacker News Reader

All this to try to win Apple's SoC?

I assume that since Apple already has a license, so their foundries (whether it be Intel, TSMC, or Samsung) does not need an additional license.

IANAL, but I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the fab needs a license to create a chip containing an ARM processor in it given that it needs the raw GDS2 database that describes the IP in the detail required to manufacture it.

The raw GDS2 that the customer (in this case Apple) contains the information necessary for fabrication, but to make the GDS2 you need to synthesize and place and route based on a standard cell library. Through their acquisition of Artisan IP, ARM sells standard cell, memory, and a bunch of other chip IP other than just their cores, and each needs to be customized to a specific fabrication process. Intel is paying ARM to customize their IP for their foundry so that it provides a lower barrier of entry to anyone using ARM IP to switch from GloFo/TSMC/Samsung/etc to Intel.

Oh, and all fabs require any IP as intricate as a memory or standard cell library to go through their verification process, as cell characterization is crucial to getting good yield (and not interfering with any other designs in the case of multi project wafers).

The foundry also needs a Foundry License from ARM [0]. But as has been pointed out, Intel already manufactures SOCs containing ARM cores, in particular the Stratix 10 [1], though Intel isn't listed by ARM as a Foundry License holder. I suspect there are many variations and intricacies to the ARM licensing system that aren't public knowledge. We just don't really know what licensing deal Intel has. For example, do they have a Design license now? If they do, they may well want to keep that private info until they have product to announce.

[0] https://www.arm.com/products/buying-guide/licensing/processo... [1] https://www.altera.com/products/fpga/stratix-series/stratix-...

Why does the foundry need a license too? I just give it a mask! That sounds like IP hell.

How does ARM ensure e.g. that the foundry only provides the chips made with that mask to the company that supplied it? ARM can't necessarily rely on the contract between the foundry and the ARM design licensee to meet all of ARM's terms, and ensure that ARM has legal standing to enforce those terms.

Probably the only way they can be sure of that is to have a contractual relationship of their own with both parties.

True. I guess this paranoia is coming from all the manufacturers just willing to rip everything off.

Even if they don't win a contract it will certainly increase Apple's leverage. There weren't too many players in the foundry business, the addition of another will just give Apple more pricing power.

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