France’s top administrative court overturns burkini ban

Me too. I think people should be allowed to do ridiculous things like this if they want to. I think the main issue is that there are two aspects to the burkini, one a cultural one and a religious one. The cultural one is where one doesn't want to invalidate others' cultures so long as nothing bad is being done (say genital mutilation), and there is the religious one which gives cover to another aspect if the cultural aspect and that is making people feel weird about their bodies and having to be 'modest' not for oneself but for family etc.

But please don't go swimming in these (or any other fully clothed manner) it adds to your bulk, in the event you encounter swimming difficulties.

I have friends who wear hijab, and for them, it makes them feel modest. I think the best way I can think about it is if I decide to go out into the street naked. Sure, my social conditioning has made me feel, well, naked when I am nude and uncomfortable with the idea of presenting myself nude in public. In fact, even when I am semi-nude (like I feel my shirt is too short and exposing my lower back), I am self-concious.

You can be so lib that you argue my discomfort with my nude self is a product of "repressive" western culture conditioned by Christian values, or you could just accept that that is my choice and what I feel comfortable with, as long as my choice doesn't affect you. I think that is fair.

I'm also of two minds - I like diversity and different cultures.

But I also would respect the French decision to protect their own indigenous culture.

I look at it this way: I have to assume that, absent evidence to the contrary, all adults are mentally healthy and psychologically competent. If I make any other assumption, then I am on the slippery slope to denying them the right to vote, to manage their own affairs, etc.

The trick, of course, is being reasonable, just, and as objective as possible as to what constitutes "evidence to the contrary". Actually actively harming another? Seems clear, and courts can decide how best to remove that person from a position from which they can inflict harm.

Harming themselves? Much tougher. We've longed struggled with determining the correct moment to intervene and the correct intervention for drugs, excessive drinking, self-cutting, etc.

Behaviour inconsistent with social norms? Much, much tougher. Perhaps we need to live and let live a little more?

Frankly, I do see the hijab, etc., as symbols of oppression. But it ain't for me to judge someone for what they are wearing or doing, if they aren't harming others, and sometimes not even when they are harming themselves.

I may dislike what other competent adults are doing, but my dislike, my distaste, my offense, are worth precisely and totally nothing when questions of regulation arise.

Outside of nudist beaches, which represent a tiny fraction, swimming in the nude isn't tolerated on french beaches. (maybe you were joking ?)

That won't "reclaim" the beaches, you'll just have conflicts between the two groups.

The way to solve it is to make the beaches nude-only. Then no anti-religious discrimination can be claimed: if they want to swim there, they just have to shed their clothes, and the rule is the same for everyone. Although, as a very fair-skinned person, the main problem I'd have with that is sunburn; I already like to wear a t-shirt at the beach for that reason.