Hacker News Reader

Comment by Animats | Hacker News Reader

This suggests a path to a solution - a higher minimum wage for immigrants. At the low end, this could be implemented by requiring 2x the minimum wage for anyone whose residency or citizenship hadn't been verified through E-verify. At the high end, we just need tougher enforcement of the H1-B visa pay rules.

To make this work, if you've been underpaid as a non-US person, you can file a complaint, and even if you're illegal in the US, that would get you a U visa, which allows up to four years residency. Winning the complaint would get the employee double pay retroactively plus a green card. That would encourage employees to file complaints, and would encourage employers to be much more careful about whom they hire.

California could try this on its own, and should.

View on HN

One thing, this would discourage immigrants to become citizens, as they most likely will take a pay cut once they become citizens. This might create a permanent class of non-citizen residents.

On the other hand, they will be unable to vote and everyone will see it as a privilege you pay for.

That doesn't make much sense to me. If the employer could hire someone for cheaper than the immigrant minimum wage, they wouldn't hire the immigrant in the first place. Or they would fire the immigrant, if he was already hired.

It's a good idea, but there are a few issues that still need ironing out:

1. Quite a few immigrants don't know their rights, or what the minimum wage is. Maybe I'm off the mark here, maybe some documentation you have to sign/read to get your visa mentions it, I don't know. But I suspect in a lot of cases, immigrants are just believing they're being paid a fair wage, and don't bother to find out if they actually are.

So that probably needs to be addressed.

2. Quite a few people simply don't care, and hence wouldn't report it. If you've immigrated from a poor enough country, then just about any US wage is far higher than you'd ever get at home. Why rock the boat?

And so you'd need to get these people out of said mindset. Or at least, have better ways to check what people are being paid in these roles, even if the actual worker doesn't care.

I think that when immigrants don't complain about poor conditions, many of them are making a reasonable cost-benefit analysis, considering the risks of retaliation, unemployment, deportation, etc. Changing the system to shift the costs and benefits would make a difference. Employers of these immigrants are also making a cost-benefit analysis. Even if only a few percent of exploited workers complained, a well-designed policy could make employing such workers untenable.

For all 'skilled' immigrants, but /particularly/ the high end, you should encourage the following.

* The immigrant must be employed with no gap exceeding 1 year, but they are free to seek out work with another company at at least the median (50th percentile) market rate of compensation for a job.

* Their sponsor employer must pay them at least the 75th percentile market rate of compensation for that type of job.

* STRONG worker protections for all workers, even salaried, about working longer than 8 hours in a day and more than 35 in a week.

* The sponsor pays the bill for vetting/background checking an immigrant on such a fast path.

* The immigrant is also on a fast track for actual citizenship, maybe 5 years?

* Also strong assurances that they //will// see citizenship at the end of that, barring any active failure on their part (mostly major crimes).

Another issue is that some companies will find a way around by using different job titles with a lower average salary

You are exactly right, and they're already doing it.

The H1-B program is rife with corruption. It should be ended immediately.

>> California could try this on its own, and should.

Immigration is the exclusive purview of the Federal government.

Setting wages, not so much.

If you up the minimum wage, employers will just use illegals.

Because they can, and competitive market forces will push them into it.

The only long term answer is to have responsible, secure borders and reasonable amounts of controlled immigration.

There's no need for a special minimum wage for immigrants.

Don't forget harsh punitive penalties for hiring illegal immigrants, penalties which should pierce the corporate veil.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com