The most coveted cigars will never be smoked | Hacker News Reader

The most coveted cigars will never be smoked

bbc.com

There is at present a sort of golden age for the cigar afficionado, individual countries highly regulate and tax cigars (priced even more highly than cigarettes for reasons that escape me), but are quite happy to allow vendors to sell internationally, the upshot is for any country outside the US it's far cheaper to buy from neighbouring countries or from the other side of the world for that matter...

How long it will last, who knows, sooner or later cross border sales of tobacco will be banned, but for the time being those who can are stocking up while they can. Cigars last for decades and peak in the 5-25 year range depending on the cigar so right now there's no downside to buying as many as you can, even the none special editions (cuban) are probably good for about 10% a year in appreciation.

Personally I'm buying a box a month.

To smoke or as an investment?

For someone who doesn't smoke it would seem an odd investment vehicle.

To smoke. I do know people who make a point of buying a couple boxes of the Cuban UK Regional editions as long term investments but personally I'm not interested in that, I buy what I enjoy to smoke in years to come, the trick is not smoking them all before they've had chance to age well, I've not really mastered it yet...

If you are not currently working for Big Tobacco, then you should be. You just convinced me to start smoking.

Hah, I'm very hesitant to discuss cigar smoking outside of forums dedicated to it because people tend not to know a lot about it and lump it in with cigarettes.

In reality they're quite different, for one I have personally never found cigars in any way addictive, they certainly do have nicotine in them, lots of nicotine but since you don't inhale (mouth only) cigar smoke it seems like you don't get the super fast hit that cigarette smokers do which in turn means they're not addictive? I'm not sure of the science behind it, all I know is myself and the others who I know in the hobby do consider cigars a hobby to be picked up and put down, in a weird way the actual collecting becomes more important than the smoking. I know people who maybe smoke 1 cigar a month but are constantly buying and selling to expand their collections.

As someone who used to smoke an average of one pack of cigarettes a day, for five years before quitting, I am curious: what's the appeal of smoking cigars? I only smoked one once and even then I missed out on the authentic experience, because nobody told me you're not supposed to inhale the smoke...

I have a few friends who I regular smoke a cigar with, sometimes as often as once a week when the weather is really nice but usually at least once every 4-6 weeks even in the winter.

1) The taste is objectively better. Sure some aren't great but even when I smoked a pack of day many years ago I always smoke menthol because I thought regular cigarettes tastes like ashes (imagine that).

2) No noticeable effect on breathing. I often could feel it in my chest after having multiple cigarettes back-to-back or at the end of a day of heavy smoking. Never had that problem with a cigar, even after having two back-to-back.

3) Social. Very few people smoke a cigar by themselves. For me it's a social event. I sit around a table with friends and beer and we talk about whatever we want for the 60-90 minutes we're there.

I've never smoked a cigarette so I really don't know how to compare them, but I personally find them a great way to relax and wind down, even though you're not inhaling you will absorb nicotine through your mouth. And then there's the flavour, the best comparison there I can give is it's a bit like single malt scotch, if you give someone who has no experience of spirits a 20 year old speyside Single malt chances are they're just going to think it's fire water initially, someone with more experience is going to really appreciate what they're drinking, their palette is more tuned to Scotch and they'll pick out flavours the newbie can't.

The thing about smoking cigars is that you smoke them however the hell you want to smoke them. It's your cigar, you inhale if you want. Do you like ice in your scotch? Have ice in your scotch. Do you like to chew on your cigars and never light them? Have at it. You're supposed to enjoy them, and nobody can tell you how to enjoy something.

Even if I hadn't quit smoking, I would definitely not inhale cigar smoke ever again. That one time I did it, I couldn't speak the next day. My voice just didn't work.

For what its worth, I literally know no one who inhales cigar smoke. A strong cigar is quite capable of making you feel very ill just from absorption via the mouth (too much nicotine), inhaling would quite likely have you throwing up.

I have inhaled every cigar I've ever smoked, and I smoke them pretty regularly and have for years.

Bear in mind that cigars are considered a positional good. Quite a few people smoke them to show off. Other than that it’s a way to relax and chill down since it takes a while to smoke the whole thing. You pair it with a good scotch and/or a chocolate and you get the whole experience. This is especially true with pipes which also last longer and have milder and more aromatic flavors. Take for example Lord of the Rings. Every time someone wants to contemplate on an issue they smoke a pipe, especially Gandalf. It’s all over the movie although few people take notice.

Dont disagree with your point but I think Gandalf was smoking hobbit weed, not tobacco. Which would probably help with contemplation as well ;)

It's tobacco. The prologue to Lord of the Rings calls it "a variety probably of Nicotiana", the narrator refers to it directly as tobacco in "The Two Towers", and in The Hobbit it's exclusively referred to as tobacco.

what's the appeal of smoking cigars?

Same basic reason people smoke cigarettes: The taste and the nicotine buzz.

My understanding is that since you're only sucking it into your mouth, you aren't getting as much of the nicotine absorbed, and very little of whatever else is in the tobacco.

Even then though, the addictiveness has to do with making it a habit; cigars are typically smoked on occasion with the goal of savoring and enjoying them. Not exactly fit for habitual use.

I smoke pipes for the same reason. I enjoy collecting them, and maybe smoke them 2 or 3 times a week (sometimes more, sometimes less). A lot of pipe tobaccos have great flavors and they're much less intense than cigarettes. They can just be a nice way to unwind every now and then.

As an ex cigarette smoker I can attest that this is true. Cigars like pipes aren’t addictive as long as you don’t inhale. The problem is that you run a much higher risk of mouth cancer, not to mention the damage you’re doing to your teeth and gum, since one cigar has the equivalent amount of tobacco as a whole pack of cigarettes. So if anyone is smoking two or three of those daily they're pretty much fucked in the long run.

Big Tobacco has hardly a thing to do with cigars. They are very different concepts and implementations, with a different market. At the very least, skill, culture, reasonably honest marketing, and enormously different end products distinguish them. I think most people's opinion of tobacco might change if they observed it start as a plant, be picked and cured, pressed and aged, then simply rolled before their eyes into a cigar. And for those who make the careless assumption that tobacco is evil, they might inquire into products such as Swedish snus, which are processed without heat and undergo minimal fermentation, resulting in a pure tobacco product with negligibly low levels of nitrosamines (the culprit for carcinogens).

All it takes for you to start smoking is a scarcity argument?

I'm not making fun of you, just saying, loss aversion is powerful.

I think he's just convinced me to buy them, not smoke them.

Even in Europe? I always thought there's heavy duties for importing tobacco and alcohol.

How do you store your cigars? Humidors aren't that cheap and require some maintenance to keep cigars in good shape for longer. Don't they?

Yes, partly due to the way cuban cigars are sold (regional monopolies), partly due to the EU Single market and partly due to... how shall I say it... customs being very busy...

It's vastly cheaper to buy internationally in the UK, like 1/3 the cost.

As for storage, you don't really need a humidor especially if you buy by the box. You need a large tupperware container (or cooler) and some Boveda packs (self regulating humidity packs), to seal in the tupperware with your cigars.

If you want to get really serious, you get a wineador which is basically an electric wine chiller, put your cigars in with some humification device and it'll keep them at the exact temperature and humidity you need.

Thanks!

I think customs are far more strict in places like Germany where I now live.

Any other tips on getting started? forums / websites to buy from etc? (I enjoy the occasional cigar, but feel quite lost in this world).

Actually Germany is a pretty cigar friendly country, it's not the absolute cheapest but it's far better than the UK, I know people who regularly order from www.cigarworld.de due to their range and fairly reasonable prices. Another site worth checking is www.top25cigars.co.uk (this is actually a Polish site). Both those should be no issue with German Customs because they're inside the EU (and one's in Germany obviously).

If you want some advice, head over to reddit.com/r/ukcigars that's where I hang out and bore people about cigars, I have the same username there. I'll be happy to answer any questions you've got.

May I ask where you are purchasing from?

The headline teases "Here's why" and then never seems to explain it. Can someone find it, or distill it down to a single sentence?

Because people value collecting them more than they do smoking them. Would you smoke your 5 million dollar cigar collection? Probably not. It's burning money!

Doesn't this line of reasoning apply to everything from wine to truffles?

Not exactly one sentance but basically... after the Cuban revolution all the previously independent cigar brands like Montecristo, H Upman e.t.c. were all forced into a single company called Habanos SA. That company controls all Cuban cigar production, every year they bring out limited edition releases of cigars which are released sometimes in very ornate packaging and typically in very limited quantities these have basically in the past 5 or so years become "investment grade" cigars.

In addition to that, said company, Habanos SA grants regional monopolies to specific companies to distribute their cigars, these companies bring out "Regional Special Editions", which are special edition cigars available for sale only in the country they distribute too. Again the tendency has been towards limited quantities and much higher prices in certain countries.

They've basically become a bit like Modern art or old single malt scotch, they're so expensive that even if you can afford to buy them you think twice about smoking them because you know that next year they'll be worth even more. That and collecting turns into as much of a hobby as smoking them does.

I don't know anyone in tech who appreciates cigars. It doesn't go with things like rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, ultramarathoning, CrossFit, or redditing that our fields are known for. I love them, but what's the HN connection?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I enjoy reading hn smoking a cigar outdoors - at the park or rooftop bar

I own a CrossFit box and have a cigar probably once every 6 weeks with our corporate attorney.

There's zero noticeable effect on lung capacity of stamina, aside from the minor mouth/throat cancer risk I don't see any reason smoking an occasional cigar would be incompatible with health and fitness.

> I don't see any reason smoking an occasional cigar would be incompatible with health and fitness.

Sounds like rationalization: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/t...

TL;DR:

- "Some premium cigars contain the tobacco equivalent of an entire pack of cigarettes."

- "Cigar smoke is possibly more toxic than cigarette smoke"

- "...the larger size of most cigars (more tobacco) and longer smoking time result in higher exposure to many toxic substances"

- "There is no safe level of tobacco use."

There's a big difference between "rationalization" and accepting the risks. I never said there was a safe level of tobacco use, but there are many recreational activities that are much riskier than the occasional cigar.

Just because the people who do these things are the loudest doesn't mean that the HN crowd doesn't do other things.

> I don't know anyone in tech who appreciates cigars

That's because most people don't want cancer

> rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, ultramarathoning, CrossFit

I feel like I missed something. When did it start that being in tech meant you are a snowboarding rock climbing cross fit stud(ette)?

My typical week I'm on my ass in front of a flickering screen for 100 hours.

A lot of the people I know in tech do these types of activities. Those who don't typically belong to an older crowd. Perhaps my cohort is bringing along a cultural change? I'm fairly new to the industry, so I might be talking out of my ass.

> rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, ultramarathoning

When did the IT or CS field become known for those pursuits? They seem more like a list of modern sports, that many in their twenties would enjoy. Perhaps you are associating with a particular age group subset, rather than the broader cross-section of the industry from 20-80+ which is a lot harder to pin down in terms of stereotypical hobbies.

I found it quite amusing when ESR decided to rewrite the Jargon File to re-define martial arts as the 'true' hacker pastime [1] since that is what he seems to enjoy...?

> [...] martial arts seems to have become firmly established as the hacker exercise form of choice [...]

[1] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/physical.html

I'm not super familiar with the history on this, but the reasoning he gave seemed plausible. From the anectdote about a random group he joined consisting of a high percentage of martial artists, to the slang analogizing programming with martial arts.

Sure he might be biased because he also does martial arts, but it is also plausible from the stance that he is unbiased.

Oh ESR is pretty notorious in these parts. Have you seen his sex tips page?

...

I have not. Could you link me?

GP is assuming the tech industry is synonymous with the Twitter/HN/Reddit crowd.

I don't know anyone in tech who appreciates cigars.

Well, you don't know me. A long and occasionally glorious career as a distance runner (including the new fashion: ultras), ex-high level bike racer, climber of volcanoes on occasion. I don't do "redditing" though; a man's got to have standards.

And I enjoy the occasional cigar, with several humidors on my shelf. I mean, let's face facts, what little chance I had to go to the Olympics passed decades ago, and a cigar once a month probably adds tenths (tenths!) of a second to my 5K time. Cancer? I'll change my tune when that chest x-ray comes back positive, but I'll take my chances in exchange for a tasty stogey on occasion.

EDIT: and come to think of it, plenty of people I know "in tech" are obese, guzzling multiples of sugar drinks and crap food all day. So I guess I was arguing with a stereotype that for the most part probably isn't even true.

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