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Comment by staticelf | Hacker News Reader

I am a Swede and can say that SVT is not a trustworthy source of news. Pretty much no swedish media is. SVT is a bit like Fox news but for the left and we have other news groups in Sweden that are like Fox news for the right. That is the state of the Swedish media.

SOURCE: 52% voted for the greens (left) and pretty much the overwhelming majority of what's left voted red (left) in a recent scientific poll.

http://jmg.gu.se/aktuellt/Nyheter/fulltext//journalist-11.ci...

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That is a gross mischaracterization.

I would describe it simply as a smaller BBC, with all that entails. It's more like NPR than FOX in regards to bias. And that is an immense difference.

Edit: As you deleted your comment, I'll edit here instead.

I know the party affiliations, and why I made a comparison to a left biased state sponsored radio network. I still strongly disagree with your comparison to FOX News. It's a huge difference between being biased and still do largely good reporting, and being biased and straight up lying daily.

Party affiliation does not inherently imply doctored news reporting or necessarily even biased reporting. I'm not disagreeing about a bias. I'm saying your comparison is way off on the magnitude.

NPR is polite cousin of MSNBC, but the politics and biases are not that different.

I disagree with your scale, but otherwise that was my point in the comparison.

And I am a Swede and would consider taking your comment with a huge grain of salt.

Of course, as long as the media report world views that confirm your political opinion it's probably the best media outlet in the country. Am I right?

I'm not sure what this argument is. It's equally likely that you dislike it because it doesn't conform to your views, regardless who's "right".

It is an argument that shows I care about the truth, not political opinion when reading about the world.

The "truth" in this case might just be based on your bias also, don't you agree? The parent comment could just as equally care about the truth in his own bias, who is the one who can judge what is objectively the truth or not?

I have relatives in Sweden and I find the disparity between what is reported by external (non-Swedish) media about events happening in Sweden and what the Swedish mainstream media itself reports is deeply disturbing.

I have relatives living in the USA and the news they see from Sweden seems to make them think Sweden is descending into chaos.

Their imagination had run quite wild.

Parts of Sweden are descending into chaos, some parts (Rosengård in Malmö. Biskopsgården in Göteborg, Järva in Stockholm, etc - these are the 'no-go zones') already have. The news you get to see in the US and elsewhere often comes from these areas. Elsewhere in Sweden things are more like they used to be, although the problem with 'utanförskapsområder' (areas where a parallel society takes shape, areas which are no longer part of Swedish society) is growing. This is caused in large part by the fact that migrants are allowed to choose where they want to live. They often choose to live with others from their home countries and/or cultures, which leads to areas becoming dominated by non-Swedish and for the largest part non-western culture, which in turn leads to the remaining native Swedes moving out either voluntarily or being harassed until they leave. It is these areas which can turn into no-go zones where gangs rule the streets, where police can not operate without being harassed or literally attacked, where both ambulances and fire trucks get bombarded with stones by 'angry youths'.

In other words, these areas end up in a spiral of violence and destruction, leading to an exodus of people - native Swedes as well as well-integrated migrants - who are fed up with the violence. The ones who remain are either those who cause the problems or those who can not afford to move for whatever reason.

My grandma actually lives in Biskopsgården, I go there often.

Would I let my children go to school in Sjumilaskolan? Not if I could avoid it. But I also don't worry that my grandma will be harassed by the youths or the niqab ladies. Because she hasn't been.

The failure in these areas is obviously a huge problem and the state has fallen short in dealing with the issues. Hopefully the court system will take the hint and start helping the police but that's for the future to tell...

But I also remember the same kind of areas from 20-30 years ago. Where the social services put the drug addicts and alcoholics, where several cars would randomly get trashed because someone had a party, where the local nazi gang would show up to beat up an immigrant because of some rumor etc. These areas are not a new problem. I guess the big difference is they've gone from knives to guns. These are the areas where the most vulnerable in society live and everyone who can leave.

There is also the difference of the scale of the problem, coupled with the polarisation in the media which has led to knee-jerk reactions when it comes to reporting on the issues - think of the way Dagens Nyheter (one of the bigger daily newspapers in Sweden) handled - or should I say covered up - the sexual abuse going on at the 'We are Sthlm' festivals. They sat on this news for 5 months until it was no longer tenable to do so due to the same kind of abuse happening in Cologne and elsewhere.

Think also of the infamous 'Code 291' used by the police for crimes where migrants are involved and the orders to keep these events out of the news 'because it might favour SD [1]'. This polarisation has led to an large reduction in trust in police and the justice department, as well as an all-time low trust level for journalists. The police should be politically neutral, just like the state media. Coloured reporting by the media is one thing, but a police force which acts out of political intent is an order of magnitude worse and something which is normally associated with failed states. Seen in that light the current police chief's clearly political stance is not just unfortunate but a real destabilising factor in Swedish society.

[1] SD or Sweden Democrats is a political party which wants to change the Swedish stance on migration, this party is shunned by all other parties and by most of the media while it averages around 20% of all votes.

This is just conspiracy stuff.

'We are Sthlm' was not judged newsworthy until the Cologne stuff. Now every potential groping at every festival is newsworthy, to the point where it's getting ridiculous.

And are you telling me the police literally has a code that singles out EVERY migrant related incident in their system? And that this would supposedly hide it from someone? Obviously that has worked out swimmingly and they really thought it would be 'secret'. Heck, coverup central DN has the very story being quoted on the Norwegian wiki article for Kode 291. Reading your replies in this thread I can understand why they'd want to keep stuff back at least until the situation settles.

Code 291, the fighting at asylum seeker housing, migrants raping migrants, the high costs of taking care of the migrants and so on... all of it has been reported on extensively in the mainstream media, heck, it's even been reported on extensively by SVT and SR.

You can literally live in the SVT/SR media bubble and know about all this.

We are Sthlm was not judged newsworthy because the (Stockholm) redaction at DN thought it was a 'rumour kicked up by SD'. The police certainly thought it was newsworthy, as did those who reported the issue. Even the journalist who took the report initially thought it newsworthy.

I'm not telling you anything, I'll let the police (in this case through an article in DN (Dagens Nyheter) but a quick search on 'polisen kod 291' will give more pointers) do the talking. Since this is the Swedish police being discussed in a Swedish newspaper the article is in Swedish as well [1]. In this article (and elsewhere through $your_favourite_search_engine) you can read that 'every report where the plaintiff, the suspect or the person being interrogated is a migrant now has to be marked with the special code "291"' ('Varje anmälan där målsäganden, den misstänkte eller en förhörsperson är migrant måste nu märkas med den särskilda koden ”291”). A bit lower down in the same article you'll find that 'the code is used as working material for the daily situation report. The situation report has been declared secret and should not be made public' ('Koden används som arbetsmaterial för den dagliga lägesbilden. Den dagliga lägesbilden är hemligstämplad varför det som står där inte ska lämnas ut'), followed a bit further down by 'everything which relates to migrants has to be kept secret and my only conclusion is that due to some politically motivated reason they do not dare to show the truth as it is, according to a person working at the police communications department' ('Allt som snuddar vid invandringsfrågan ska hållas hemligt och min enda slutsats är att man av något slags politiska skäl inte vågar visa verkligheten som den är, säger en anställd på polisens kommunikationsavdelning.').

That the police was not that successful in keeping their secrets is another story altogether. This has nothing to do with [my] replies in this thread [2] and everything with the fact that censorship does not fit in a democratic society. All it does is create even more suspicion, as shown by the reactions to the recent gang rape on Gotland where the police refuse to give details on the suspects they apprehended.

In short, openness trumps censorship every time.

[1] http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/polisen-hemlighaller-fakta-... [2] ...and what exactly is wrong with my replies in this thread, please elaborate...

By Järva do you mean Järvastaden? Or some other part of Solna? I'm curious.

The area around 'Järvafältet'. Maybe I should have mentioned Tensta/Rinkeby/Husby et al as well but I don't think HN is interested in a detailed listing of Swedish problem-areas. Vivalla in Örebro, ... the list goes on and, unfortunately, is growing. Kronogården in Trollhättan might be next given the recent developments there.

I'm interested, actually, but only because the core parts of Stockholm are so immaculate that it's hard to imagine the city (or its suburbs) might have any "sketchy" parts. Though I'm sure it must have its soft underbellies, if you're willing to go out a bit.

So that list should give me enough to chew on ;)

The fact that central Stockholm is an oasis of order and prosperity is sometimes seen as a key factor in the developments in Sweden. Why? Because that is where a large majority of the politicians reside. Then they look out of their windows at the ordered world outside and think 'see, things are going just great in Sweden'. Meanwhile cars are burned every night just a few subway ('tunnelbana') stops away but since they never venture in these areas - which are known to be bad news - they do not see with their own eyes just what the result of some of their policies are.

Order and good living conditions is the norm in most of the country. Unless the politicians come specifically from these areas they will be accustomed to that version of Sweden regardless of where they lived most of their life. Even said areas are mostly calm except when the youths are on school breaks.

Plus, the areas you speak of vote for the left (S and V, not MP), aka the very politicians who supposedly don't understand those areas.

Tensta: http://www.val.se/val/val2014/slutresultat/R/valdistrikt/01/... Rinkeby: http://www.val.se/val/val2014/prelresultat/R/valdistrikt/01/... Husby: http://www.val.se/val/val2014/prelresultat/L/valdistrikt/01/... Vivalla: http://www.val.se/val/val2014/slutresultat/K/valdistrikt/18/...

Given the low employment and high dependence on government subsidies it is hardly surprising that the majority of votes in these areas goes to those parties which are least likely to reduce those subsidies. In that respect these areas do not differ from other areas with low employment, even though some of those who traditionally would have voted for S (social democratic party) now vote for SD (Sweden democrats). Even that is not really surprising, given that the party program for SD is in many ways comparable to that of the social democratic party in the '50s and '60s, including the rhetoric about the virtues of a homogeneous society.

What do your relatives in Sweden say about this?

The Media's complete silence on important issues is slowly undermining democracy in Sweden.

While i agree that SVT/state media has a very left leaning profile and are leaving facts and statistics unsaid/hidden, that does not mean that the article itself is untrue and uninteresting.

I think that's exactly what it means.

Thats standard in immigration discourse these days, with one side drumming the narrative that immigration enriches our societies and helps our economies with other going that they are criminals and uneducated slackers looking to leech on social programmes.

"Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Does not apply to mainstream media. When the medium is the message, the line between attacking the message or the medium is blurred.

They don't deliver any arguments. The entire existence of SVT has one practical purpose: build political opinion. I am just saying that this is the case with them and pretty much every Swedish media outlet.

While I'm not a Swede I do live in Sweden and I do follow Swedish news (both the 'official' as well as the 'alternative' sources). I do have to concede that SVT (and, more or less to the same extent, SR - Swedish Radio) has a problem with bias. Being a state-financed broadcaster (through a mandatory payment for anyone who has 'television reception equipment' in their residence, no matter whether that equipment is used to watch SVT) they are by law mandated to be politically neutral. This is something they (as an organisation) fail in, and rather miserably. If I were to place them somewhere in the political spectrum they would end up next to the (ruling) labour party, sometimes to the left of them, sometimes to the right. In this they mirror most of the 'official' media in Sweden which hover around the same area in their political orientation. As the previous poster indicated this can partly be explained by looking at the political orientation for the large majority of those employed in the 'media' and 'culture' sector.

This combination of left-oriented media and a left-wing government has led to a systematic failure of the media to keep check on the government, especially where it concerns Miljöpartiet (the green party). That party was recently shaken by a number of scandals, mostly related to the infiltration of islamist politicians - one of whom made it as far as a position as minister for housing in the current government, he stepped down when his position become untenable - with an agenda which diametrically opposed that of the party itself. Until a few months ago there was not a single (!) critical voice in the 'official' media where it concerned this party. Where all other parties - especially those which are in opposition against the current migration policy in Sweden - were targeted by the media (as they should be, this is part of their function, to keep check on the political establish ment) the green party sailed by without a single critical voice.

Another problem lies in the fact that Swedish media often use supposedly objective but in truth politically activist research organisations as source for their material. The best example of this is 'Expo', an organisation which was set up to do research on anti-Semitism, racism and xenophobia. This might have been their charter once but they do not live up to it, instead they are a political activist organisation with an agenda which resembles that of Vänsterpartiet ('the left party', formerly known as 'Vänsterpartiet Kommunisterna' or 'the left wing party communists', they changed their name after the demise of the Soviet Union) and Miljöpartiet. While in itself this is not a problem, they are still treated by the media as if they are an objective, politically neutral organisation. That is a problem.

Have you actually ever watched Fox News?

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