Apple's October TV Surprise | Hacker News Reader

Apple's October TV Surprise

joe-steel.com

51 pointsyannickt47 comments

There is some that I agree with in here, and some that I disagree with. Ultimately I think it's fairly well thought out, though I am personally excited about the new apps for Apple TV.

The lack of 4k/UHD/HDR support in the Apple TV is, I agree, not cool. When the ATV4 came out, it was excusable - there was not a lot of 4k content, and 4k TVs were more expensive than they are now. In the interim, they have gone down in price and there is much more content available in UHD.

As far as the new TV and Live TV apps, I am very excited. The ATV is my window into all of the media consumption that I do on TV - I use Plex to stream things from my NAS, Netflix to watch Netflix, ABC, CBS, ESPN, etc. apps to watch on demand TV, and I am mostly very happy with it. These new apps are going to make that a much better viewing experience - syncing up all of my logins, and providing a central point to browse and stream. I view this as a pretty big win over the experience on other devices.

Even though Netflix (and I'm assuming Plex) won't be included, it's still a big step up from having to use the Fox, Fox Sports, CBS, NBC, ESPN, ABC, etc. apps to know which channel the college football game is on (usually ESPN, sometimes Pac 12 Network or CBS), or what channel airs a particular TV show.

Ultimately, I have a 1080p TV, so I'm not missing the inability to stream in 4k. My next device will undoubtedly be 4k however, and I would be very bummed if Apple did not have a device that was capable of producing 4k video.

Netflix won't be included. https://www.wired.com/2016/10/apples-new-tv-app-wont-netflix...

This is just me guessing, but it kinda feels like Plex won't either.

Unlike Netflix, Plex doesn't have any interest in directly controlling content, so I'd be really surprised if they didn't participate. tvOS/iOS TV app integration would be a great selling point for the Plex Cloud and Plex DVR premium features.

Well it depends if the TV app is available through an open API, or whether you must be invited in by Apple much like their TV Siri and universal search integrations.

I should have mentioned - I don't mind Netflix (and Plex) not being included.

Maybe it's a big jump in my head, but the apps that I want grouped together are the "traditional" (cable station) apps that are usually low quality and require a multi-step 'activation' process to work on every device.

I can deal with a few standouts if it means I don't need to remember what TV station x or y is on.

I'm in exactly the same boat. I also recently started using Channels to stream my local channels and I absolutely love it!

The problem with 4K availability is that content providers have put so much effort into preventing leaks by strangling their content with tons of DRM. That means, HDCP requirements, absolutely no playing content on a PC, etc. It'll be years before you see any kind of UHD via cable.

Not to mention consumer internet providers provide horrible service across the US which can't even support the bandwidth needed for those streams.

I don't think it will take long for apple to create a new apple TV with 4k output if the market goes that way quickly.

That'd be a pretty big bummer for anyone who adopted it recently though - I'm not sure if I could justify another $200 just for 4k when there are plenty of <$100 devices that can do it right now.

It's a $150 device, not $200 base price, and that argument applies to almost anything apple. The phones, laptops, even the airplay wifi spots are more expensive than an equivalent. They also retain their resale value, so selling the old one isn't hard or a big loss compared to the android equivalent. They also care about security and will get updates for many years to come, also unlike most android devices.

People also update their other devices at a much higher frequency, I don't think the 4K edition coming out is going to be a big deal.

I agree with this. I get the feeling that Tim Cook cares a lot more about shareholders than Steve Jobs ever did, and he's really trying to optimise for average selling price (and with that, gross margin) of devices.

MacBooks have went up substantially in price. AppleTV (as this article shows) is really expensive vs competition. The $10k Apple Watch was a laughable misstep.

The iPad Pro is very expensive for a tablet also.

If I had more balls I would short AAPL stock. I have never been so confused after an Apple event than this one. They are all over the place and it suggests that they really don't know what customers want in 'mature' product categories.

"Tim Cook cares a lot more about shareholders than Steve Jobs ever did" ... "If I had more balls I would short AAPL stock."

Can you expand on this? Those seem at odds to me.

Perhaps catering to shareholders isn't a good idea for Apple.

Shareholders should come second to product for Apple. Time and time again, when they focus and nail the product it translates directly to increased shareholder value. Trying to marginally increase shareholder value the way they have lately looks great in the short-term but hurts their brand specifically in the long-term.

I think he's saying that focusing on shareholders is (counterintuitively) a bad sign for company health in the long term.

Didn't work out for Kodak, Blackberry or Microsoft. It's a very bad sign for tech companies.

Yes, fair point, I was trying to say that rarely does focussing on short term shareholder value actually do that. Look at Steve Ballmer: delivered outstanding sales growth at the expense of basically missing every major play Microsoft should've made.

An example: by killing off the lower cost MacBooks, students may end up not buying as many Macs (I would almost certainly have got a Windows/Linux laptop if the entry level macbook was so expensive when I was younger). They won't learn iOS development skills, since you really have to have a Mac to do that.

Net result: I bet in ~3-5 years all the killer social media apps will end up on Android first.

Back in the iBook/original MacBook era Mac laptops were actually about the same price as a comparable Windows laptop, plus they were WAY nicer. I even remember the first core duo macbook being the cheapest dual core laptop out on the market. I bet a load of people who now make iOS apps (me included) learnt because they picked up those machines because they were affordable and offered great value.

While I am sure that the new Macbooks offer good 'value' if you like the touch pad, I don't think they are affordable at the entry level.

The iPad Pro is an excellent device. I have the 9.7" one with the Apple Pencil. The wide color screen and it's true tone feature are simply unparalleled [1], and as a drawing tablet it beats pretty much everything out there [2].

There is virtually no lag in anything and everything's buttery smooth. The side-by-side multitasking greatly improves many workflows even if it's still just two apps a time for now. For example I can watch a drawing tutorial on YouTube while practicing in Procreate (which by the way, beats many-times-more-expensive desktop painting apps in some ways.) You can even literally control two apps simultaneously, one with each hand; something that isn't possible with a mouse pointer.

There is a lot more made-for-iPad software than there is for Android tablets, including many AA+ games with all the content that you get in the PC version (just finished Broken Age and Primordia, amazing stuff!) The battery more or less gets me through an entire day on a single charge. I can't really think of anything more that I want in a tablet at the moment, and it'll get even better through software updates.

In fact, what the recent MacBook event has helped me decide, is that most of my portability needs are fulfilled by the iPad Pro — I can do almost everything on it that I need or want to do when I'm away from my desk. So my next Mac will actually be an iMac (need a big screen at home anyway) while the iPad Pro will be replacing my 12" MacBook.

As for the Apple TV 4, it's actually a nice little $150 games console in addition to its media-consumption features, especially if you already purchased games for your iPhone or iPad, since quite a few apps have Apple TV versions that you get for free. The UI is also pretty nice, compared to other boxes.

[1] http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_Pro9_ShootOut_1.htm

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMA25CqKcn8

Not saying they are not good devices, just they're expensive. Keep in mind the original iPad was $499 - really great value.

I don't think the Apple TV offers particularly good value, considering you can get an Xbox One or PS4 for not much more money if you are into gaming.

The margins on the cables and adapters have also always been laughable.

A few years after a new cable format although, you can get fairly affordable 3rd party cables although. And now they are moving to USB-C, which doesn't have any thing apple specific other than the lightning connector.

A few years? More like a couple weeks.

It took a while for $2 lightning cables that worked well to show up in dollar stores. In the first year or two, they weren't around.

I have Retina MacBook and can tell you that two years after the RMB introduction the USB Type C ecosystem barely exists.

Although to be fair I don't plug much into my machine any more so it doesn't really affect me.

Well, two things:

1) On iOS, Apple have a record of disabling third-party cables through software updates. Ask me how I know. :)

2) USB-C cables have a horrible reputation for quality control that's all over the place. This is one place where Apple might have a leg up, because a third-party cable could literally blow up your computer.

Honestly, it's mainly the combination of the high price tag and their shitty build quality that leads to near-instant fraying that pisses me off about Apple cables more than anything.

Steve Jobs increased the value of AAPL by close to 200x during the period 1997-2011.

But do you think he went in to work every day thinking about how he could increase AAPLs stock price before the end of the quarter? I don't think so, but I think Tim Cook does.

I have no idea. I'm simply pointing out that empirically it's hard to make the case that Tim Cook "cares" more about the stock price than Steve did.

I love my Apple TV but mainly because it makes using Plex and a couple of the other apps so easy. Plex with the Apple TV is simply an amazing experience. Also, because of the Apple TV, I've gone "legit" and bought a ton of stuff from iTunes because it's so convenient.

But most of the apps suck. I can't use any of the TV station apps like NBC, etc, without already having a cable subscription, which basically misses the point. I can't wait for DirectTV to come out with a streaming version, it just be good enough for me to switch to that permanently.

Netflix + CBS All Access + Youtube + Others like twitter for NFL = 16/month for streaming.

It helps that OTA HD stations are free!

I live in a valley so I can't get any signals from the OTA stations.. it sucks.

> I can't use any of the TV station apps like NBC, etc, without already having a cable subscription, which basically misses the point

True, but you can blame the existing contractual relationships among the cable providers, networks, content owners, and content distributors, and the business model inertia holding it all in place. Apple's interests are probably aligned with yours on this.

I recommend the Reuters TV app on apple tv. pretty slick

Poor site seems to have died.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zm6AW02...

ctrl+f mirror

I still don't understand why the ATV doesn't have gigE. The BOM differential for 100mbit vs gigE can't be more than $1...

Heard they're going to remove it in the next version, as well as hdmi. A USB dongle will be required to connect to your TV and internet is wireless only /s

For now, few video streams are anywhere near 100mbit.

App downloads would be faster for the tiny slice of people with > 100mbit internet who also aren’t using wireless. I guess that’s something? Probably not worth a smaller margin to Apple.

While I always like to see the best specs on everything, there's nothing you could stream that even approaches 100mbit never mind gigabit. For something no one has anyone use for outside of a check mark on a specs sheet, saving $1 per unit is a huge profit increase when you sell 10 million of something. Crazy shit has been done by manufacturers to save pennies, never mind dollars. Not surprising.

In theory you could get upwards of 108 Mbit/s if you were streaming a UHD Blu-Ray over the network. Sounds a bit ridiculous just saying it, though, and I would have saved the $1 if I were designing it.

Planned obsolescence...

Apple wants to maximize profits, sure, but they also want the stickiness and network effects of an ecosystem. Which means building a large base of perpetual users to whom they can expose app stores and sell services. So planned obsolescence is a difficult argument to make, at least in this case.

It's also not just the gigE port, remember. It's stuff inside the device to handle 1Gbps on that interface and do something useful with it; i.e., actually render a video stream that is FAR higher bandwidth than anything we're using today, which likely means more CPU and better graphics hardware.

All this, for really no reason at all, since all video streams for the foreseeable future will fit just fine in under 100Mbps.

While I totally agree with you, the Apple TV also includes 802.11ac which is capable of negotiating a link speed far greater than 100mbit/100mbit.

Of course, speeds in excess of that are totally not necessary when streaming video, but I could see the case when downloading multi gigabyte files for games, etc. Personally, I have mine connected via wired instead of on my wireless network, just because it's more reliable and it sits right next to a switch already.

This page causes a "Network Disconnected" error on Safari for iPad. There is no loss of connection whatsoever, and every other site/service works for me. What on earth is going on?

Edit: replicable across multiple networks, too.

Edit 2: fixed itself somehow. Weird.

Nice

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