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Comment by bertiewhykovich | Hacker News Reader

Am I imagining that the enthusiasm for gut bacteria research is driven in part (potentially in large part) by the failure of more classical physiological paradigms for understanding mental illness? Anything to avoid confronting the fact that people have real, profound problems, eh?

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I think the inverse is actually the truth. "Classic" physiological paradigms have failed only in the sense that that early findings were represented far too simplistically by those who benefitted from simplistic models (pharma companies). No respectable neuroscientist has ever claimed anything even approaching a coherent understanding/model of mental illness.

The discovery of gut/vagus interaction and its direct effects on mental function is simply an extension of the monoamine research. The enthusiasm for gut biome research lies in the fact that it's a relatively new field and may contribute a lot to our understanding of nature vs nurture (heritability vs environment) due to how gut bacteria cause direct and measurable changes to neurological function via the vagus nerve, which (at least in mouse models) directly affects behavior. This research isn't somehow replacing other ideas, but rather acting to supplement and help paint a more complete picture of a very incomplete understanding.

I'm not sure what you're referencing by 'avoiding confrontation...'.

A friend of mine has depression, and yet externally his life is excellent (he knows this, but that doesn't change how his mind perceives reality). I've had very large problems, and maintained mental health throughout.

Do external factors influence mental health? Undoubtedly. But that hardly means things like bacteria aren't a factor as well.

From my own experience and that of friends/family, when you really dig deeply you'll find that there is actually a reason for depression most of the time. The question to ask is: is this really what I want to be doing with my life right now? You may be making great money as a stockbroker on Wall Street with a great family, or earning $200k at google, but if that's not really what you want to do deep down, you may get depressed.

>I've had very large problems, and maintained mental health throughout.

There are a lot of factors that determine whether life shit causes depression.

>But that hardly means things like bacteria aren't a factor as well.

Agreed, but there isn't much evidence of that at the moment.

What if what you really want to do is lay on the couch and read or watch TV all days?

Except for some days, where you feel better, and want to be more active, and you get shit done?

And then you wish more of the former days were like the latter days, but don't understand why they aren't?

That, or if you don't have any clue what you might do differently that would make any difference at all.

>Agreed, but there isn't much evidence of that at the moment.

I haven't actually evaluated the state of the evidence. I was mainly writing to say the comment I was replying to had made a fallacy.

Perhaps. There's also evidence that gut bacteria produce a significant amount of neurotransmitters, such as serotonin. There's always the cause/correlation piece, but it's not unreasonable to believe that gut bacteria play some role, regardless of the ultimate cause.

https://www.caltech.edu/news/microbes-help-produce-serotonin...

> the fact that people have real, profound problems, eh?

What does that even mean? Gut bacteria not real and profound enough for you?

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