You rather proved my point, unfortunately. Web apps are not about "DOM manipulation". They are about delivering no-install applications over the internet. They have historically been about DOM manipulation because that was all they could afford to do performantly (and that only barely at times). As that changes, so does the web. We're getting a ways along this path anyhow (http://code.google.com/p/quake2-gwt-port/ ), just with increasingly fast JS and other tech, but it's only going to grow more.