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Comment by throw12313221 | Hacker News Reader

For people from Russia or other countries China could be attractive option. Take-home money can be good, especially with low taxation. US is not really a competition, it is relatively unfriendly to foreigners, very hard to move there.

But I think China wants to mainly increase talent retention. There are many Chinese who stay in US after finishing their studies there. China wants those educated people back.

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"But I think China wants to mainly increase talent retention. There are many Chinese who stay in US after finishing their studies there. China wants those educated people back."

They should consider democracy, then. Educated people like that.

I was born in a communist country. It's not surprising to me that smart people want to leave.

Communist != undemocratic

China happens to be neither communist or democratic

How is china not communist?

They don't even claim to be communist? The official line is "socialism with Chinese characteristics" which is already pretty misleading.

Yeah, if you think of word "communist" as a name for an ideal, perhaps it's possible. But most countries that were designated communist (or socialist, which is even more misleading) were also undemocratic, and I happened to be born in one of them (Czech Republic).

The "communist" part of the system I was born in actually worked somewhat. What didn't work was absence of democracy, which means there was one hierarchy of power. This was the cause of nepotism, corruption and pollution, just as it is in China.

I guess it depends on your idea of "unfriendly to foreigners". If you're referring to countries where the US has icy relations with, getting a visa might be problematic, otherwise, I think your experience is a bit off.

As a native born American, I see a surprising amount of small business owners who are successful are not from America. Even in the small town (Nicholasville, KY population ~20,000) I'm from, most of the convenience stores and gas stations are owned by a single middle eastern family that is super friendly to everyone. I went to school with Charlie, one of their sons, who was the first to be born and raised in the US. I see so many Americans who were raised in relative ease and comfort simply being out hustled by immigrants and "foreigners" who have more drive.

You know what, that is great! The healthy mix of diversity is what makes America (already) great. If a family legally comes from Mexico and wants to hustle their way into success, I'm all for it. Immigration is not a bad thing.

It is very hard to get green card or work visa in US, compared to other countries. I am a white guy from EU.

No offense but I don't think you really have a grasp of the US immigration system. It's very difficult to immigrate or even get a temporary work visa. It's easier if you are the relative of a US citizen, but even then if you are mainland Chinese born or Indian you have to wait in a long queue unless you are the spouse of a US citizen.

Very difficult is an understatement. It's basically close to impossible to work in the US for a EU or russian citizen.

Source: Friends of me who want to move to the USA. I'm talking people with rare qualifications with a company ready to take them at $200k base salary and the layers to do all the paperwork for the H1B. They just can't get a fu----- VISA.

Yes, even in a situation like that, it still comes down to, literally, a lottery (one with zero transparency). Compare with the independent skilled migration systems of Australia, Canada and NZ.

If a sponsor employer would give them that salary, and they have rare qualifications, maybe they should apply for O1 rather than H1B. I helped a guy with a recommendation letter for O1, and it wasn't hard. He basically gave me a template that I customized with data specific to work we had done together. I am not even American.

There's a long queue for permanent residency for certain countries. The process of getting a temporary work visa is largely the same for a Chinese or Indian national as it is for an EU or Japanese national though.

> US is not really a competition, it is relatively unfriendly to foreigners, very hard to move there.

Which is why the immigration volume into the USA is more than 10 times greater than China?

> There are many Chinese who stay in US after finishing their studies there. China wants those educated people back.

Sure China wants those people back, but those people want to avoid the smog and are rather happy with the public education system for their (more than one) kids. China has a lot of problems to fix before it can stem the brain drain.

If you want to go abroad for couple of years to make some money, before returning home and starting a family, china is a good option.

Yes, that's what I did (10 years, not 2). But it was always temporary since china doesn't have immigration.

> But I think China wants to mainly increase talent retention. There are many Chinese who stay in US after finishing their studies there. China wants those educated people back.

Do you mean their Chinese talent? Because for everyone else it's practically impossible to make long-term decisions about staying in China. Your work visa will always be tied to a company and a marriage visa doesn't entitle you to work. The mythical "green card" visa for all intents and purposes doesn't exist.

Once you have certain categories of information on tap, you never want to be locked behind a firewall again. I'm not just talking about salacious imagery, either.

The US needs to clean up its act, as well, as it is losing many of the most desirable Chinese immigration candidates to Canada now.

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