President Signs Law Protecting Your Right to Review | Hacker News Reader

President Signs Law Protecting Your Right to Review

eff.org

70 pointsDiabloD333 comments

It should be noted that libel laws are still in effect. That means that companies can and will pressure authors to remove reviews through extortion - i.e. threat of a libel suit. Even if the threat is baseless, most people will remove reviews just to avoid a legal headache.

Believe me, I was threatened more than once, but I was way too busy to deal with a lawsuit. But, it still pisses me off.

As an aside, it's kind of f'd up that a company can even sue for libel. These were original common laws - i.e. person vs. person. Now, companies are 'people'. I am not a lawyer, so I don't understand the nuance. (which, btw, is also messed up: it's barely possible for non-specialists to understand the laws to which they're held accountable.) Rant Over.

icantdrive55, you appear [dead]. (Does that mean that I'm dead, or you're dead? I don't know.)

Anyway, your story is very similar to one of my experiences. I had a medical issue. So, I found a specialist from one of those "top specialist in your metro area" lists. I scheduled an appointment, waited a few months, went to the appointment, and I had one of the worst service experiences ever. I posted a review that explained my expectations and experience just to warn others. I was quickly contacted by the doctor's lawyers (even though I had posted the review 'anonymously') and extorted into altering the review.

I wish the state legislature would put a limit on the number of unsuccessful libel lawsuits a lawyer could file.

They file because they have the money to file, and some very bruised egos. I can't remember one they won.

In my state of California, a Plastic Surgeon managed to rack up over 70 bad Yelp reviews. She then tried to sue 12 of her former patients.

The judge threw the lawsuits/lawsuit out. Poof!

A limit on the number of lawsuits you can file is a limitation of your Constitutional right

While I agree, there should be repercussions. It's borderline harassment though to fire up frivolous cases.

It's weird how some issues become partisan and others don't. I wonder what made both parties support this? Why can't that happen more often?

A major change was that the Congressional GOP opposed everything Obama tried to do until the last year, a scorched earth tactic to damage Obama regardless of the costs to the country and world. Then, in an effort to appear a little less obstructionist in an election year, they passed some bills.

But even then they set new norms for obstructionism; for example, they refused to vote on a Supreme Court nomination, something unprecedented in U.S. history, and refused to do anything about the sequester, again an unprecedented act. I'm pretty sure they refused to provide aid to Flint for their water crisis and or to provide funding for the Zika virus.

If it costs them nothing politically - and what were the consequences of their obstructionism mentioned above? - they will do it. The Democrats, who do little to confront and extract costs from the GOP, are effectively complicit IMHO.

EDIT: Some edits

There is only one rule in politics: win. Harry Reid recognizes that when he boasts about telling an outright lie about Mitt Romney's taxes on the Senate floor. About the episode he says: "Romney didn't win, did he?" [0] He's right. Whether Reid told a lie or not is irrelevant. He helped secure the Presidency for his party, an outcome that will echo in history for a long time.

Exercising Congress's prerogative to vote and not vote on whatever it damn well pleases is fair game.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/15/ha...

> There is only one rule in politics: win

I strongly disagree. Politicians have always balanced their interests with others, such as those of the nation. They have the power to destroy the country, physically (by engaging in nuclear war, as a simple example) and politically (e.g., they could impeach every president, pass destructive laws, and never confirm Supreme Court nominations). It's not at all "fair game"; their responsibility is to govern the nation to the best of their abilities and to be responsible to the rest of the world. There's a reason that the current Congress' actions are unprecedented.

Your argument assumes that everyone agrees on what the interests of the nation are, and how to achieve them. In fact, there is vicious disagreements on just that point. That is the central divide in our politics. The Republicans and Democrats both think they're doing what's best for the nation.

Didn't we pass some legislation a while back which cut back significantly on the amount of 'pork' allowed in a bill? I feel like that has bitten us pretty hard as a practical matter -- because if we go strictly on ideology, nothing happens because there is no incentive. Maybe little compromises and adding in some back scratching would make congress move again?

> The Republicans and Democrats both think they're doing what's best for the nation.

Again, I disagree. IMHO, speaking generally, the Republicans seek only power to an unprecedented degree. Again, see my examples above. They've undermined the White House, Congress, and Supreme Court, as well as the military, and many other essential institutions. They openly deceive the public on climate change; that does nothing for the country, it puts the nation and world at great risk.

Okay, so you disagree with their world view on a number of points, but many in the other camp would say that they are taking a principled stand in those actions and attempt to claim the same moral high ground. As an example, take what you view as "openly deceiving" the public on climate change. Right or wrong, it can be (and is) argued not entirely disingeniously that there is a totalitarian undercurrent in the course proscribed to resolve the looming crisis. The debate often devolves into name-calling and pushes back from actual meaningful communication. I feel like the phraseology and the casting of every single issue in the current political discourse into an absolute moral / ethical question is the poison that is killing our system. We now have mass media echo chambers of all sides and flavours that can reinforce and magnify the differences between any two not entirely dissimilar world views instead of focusing us on the commonalities between them and guiding us to communicate. Take climate change again, there is an entire spectrum of belief regarding what it is and how to solve it. There are people who advocate ignoring global warming as a hoax and some who want to reduce global populations and roll back industrial production, and thousands of different areas in between and elsewhere. In each of their worldviews, most of them genuinely hold their beliefs and when presented with an existential threat to those beliefs, rather than seeing it as two sides of a coin the habit is to resort to good vs evil etc. The solution IMHO is to work on improving the arguments of all sides and the art of debate in general. If a person advocates that there has been no warming at all, which contravenes quite a bit of research, holders of different views should focus on improving their presentation of fact through argument, rather than what I feel in most cases is the more typical practice of customarily calling each other kooks and crossing the street.

Refusing to vote on a Supreme Court nomination is not only not unprecedented in U.S. history, its not even rare. A couple of W's nominations didn't go anywhere.

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/nominations/Nomin...

Let's go back to the 1880's. From your list nine supreme court justice nominations did not have votes. That may come across as a lot. But seven made it on to the supreme court with another nomination (John Roberts, Jr., Abe Fortas, John Harlan, Pierce Butler, William Hornblower, and Stanley Matthews). That leaves three: Merrick Garland, Harriet Miers, Homer Thornberry. Homer Thornberry withdrew his nomination. He was nominated to replace Abe Fortas when Fortas was nominated for Chief Justice. Abe Fortas was embroiled by a few scandals so withdrew his nomination which killed Thornberry's nomination. Harriet Miers was nominated by Bush but there was bipartisan opposition to her nomination and her nomination was withdrawn less than a month later. But even then senators had planned on holding nomination hearings. That leaves Merrick Garland. I'd say that one person since 1880 not having a chance for a vote or hearing is unprecedented.

This is spin, pure and simple.

A cursory glance at the page you link to tells a dramatically different story than the one you're telling. John Roberts was originally nominated to replace Sandra Day O'Connor. Then Rehnquist died and Roberts was renominated to become Chief Justice.

In the case of Harriet Miers, everyone was opposed to her, including the right who called her unqualified. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10...

No one is saying that Merrick Garland is unqualified. It's a naked political ploy with no modern (or historical?) precedent.

Its not spin. Here's a quote when the shoe was on the other foot:

"Former Democratic Senate leader Robert Byrd explained it well in a 2005 speech endorsed by then-Senator Joe Biden, among others:

There is no stipulation in the Constitution as to how the Senate is to express its advice or give its consent… The Senate can refuse to confirm a nominee simply by saying nothing and doing nothing"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...

Quite simply, stonewalling Merrick is more destructive partisanship, but its not without "modern (or historical?) precedent".

Whatever Byrd said, the Senate never did it before. It is a matter of fact.

  something unprecedented in U.S. history

Hardly. For 10 such examples, see:

http://thefederalist.com/2016/02/16/10-times-democrats-vowed...

Those aren't examples. One politician vowing to do it and the entire Senate actually doing it are entirely different; Congress had never done it before this year.

And that assumes you believe the Federalist, a highly partisan source.

There's no major money in play politically, so they are able to do the right thing.

My impression is that it is because the electorate of both parties is likely to support it and it doesn't clash with donor's preferences.

The congressional GOP's approval rating is (or was) at record lows. It wasn't about pleasing their electorate.

> The congressional GOP's approval rating is (or was) at record lows. It wasn't about pleasing their electorate.

The only approval rating that matters is the approval rating from their own constituents. And that's always been a lot better than their overall approval rating.

Or to put it another way, "everyone thinks Congress is doing a bad job, but they think their Congressman is doing a good job".

> The only approval rating that matters is the approval rating from their own constituents

A good point, but remember that most are in single-party districts; they need to please people in their party primaries but the voters in the general election have no choice.

Does this law negate DeWitt Clauses? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_DeWitt

A vendor can still sue you (for libel I guess?). They just can't put prevent bad reviews with a contract?

Suing reviewers for libel seems like a losing proposition. Schemes like this rely on the remedy for bad reviews being cheap and easy. Libel suits are neither.

Sure suing is expensive, but threatening to sue is quite easy.

How about business's right to protect against fake reviews? Maybe thats already in the law?

Doesn't that just fall under libel?

anyone knows if there is an EU-wide law protecting reviewers ?

Well, both the ECHR and CFREU protect freedom of expression, though I don't know if they are much use here, since it's not the government censoring you.

Article 11 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union:

> 2. The freedom and pluralism of the media shall be respected.

(https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights...)

Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights:

> 1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

> 2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Con...)

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